[Signing] Flames sign Huberdeau to long term extension (8 yrs, $10.5 mil AAV)

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay. So you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Treliving signed Tkachuk to an 8-year deal on the mutual understanding that he wasn't staying at all. Not even on the table. That was a pure 'Sign and Trade.'

Calgary was the only place that could give him 8 years to bring the AAV down. So he was signed with the design of trading him. The fact that he got the 8th year, the AAV down was what increased his value.

He was signing him so he could trade a contracted player. Tkachuk got his money and played ball.

As usual, you’re confused.

Yes, it was a sign and trade. Is that your ‘I got you’ moment. Great. Give yourself a pat on the back.

I’ll stand by my point Tkachuk always had it as his intention to go to the US. Interestingly enough, Steinberg has also said as much saying, several times, Tkachuk was leaving regardless.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We had no covid restrictions in 2022. I don't recall having to wear a face panty, face bra do we still call it that?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Tkachuk was “gone” once COVID/Sutter hit because they were fresh in his mind when his contract was up.

If Treliving had signed him to a long term contract he’d still be on team now. Why are people pretending otherwise?

The contract that Tkachuk was looking for, instead of the bridge deal, was absolutely massive. Sure, if the organization had given Tkachuk an 8 year $9 million ish contract after one good year people wouldn't have been so pleased.

So yes, you are correct giving relatively young players massive contracts is a way to keep them around.

Also, Tkachuk seems like the kind of guy who would demand a trade and then simply not play so great after. Contracts in the NHL aren't as iron clad as people think. When a star pouts enough, they can get their way.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

The contract that Tkachuk was looking for, instead of the bridge deal, was absolutely massive. Sure, if the organization had given Tkachuk an 8 year $9 million ish contract after one good year people wouldn't have been so pleased.

So yes, you are correct giving relatively young players massive contracts is a way to keep them around.

Also, Tkachuk seems like the kind of guy who would demand a trade and then simply not play so great after. Contracts in the NHL aren't as iron clad as people think. When a star pouts enough, they can get their way.

See Carter, Jeff.

[PepsiFree]

Except there is zero evidence Tkachuk would have done that

[Calgary4LIfe]

It amazes me that some people don't think the Huberdeau contract is going to be a huge concern down the road. Is it a concern today? Of course not. However, in 4 years, the Flames will likely be re-signing two young superstars - Parekh (who will probably go back to Junior for a year) and whomever they draft next year in the top 5, who is likely to play right away. Potential 10+ million deals each (assuming they work out). Then the Flames are likely to have a few more - they are likely to be picking in the top 5 for the next 3 seasons starting with this one. That's 2 more high end players that you probably want to extend to long-term deals. Plus you will have other players stepping forward - maybe Wolf? Brzustewicz? Morin? Other players? I mean, if the rebuild goes correctly, then cap space will be used up pretty damn quickly.



Huberdeau's 10.5 million (and Kadri's 7 million) are going to be impediments on extending certain players, and will probably require sweeteners to be added in trade. One year of Huberdeau's deal will probably be worth a first assuming that the cap rises. Kadri's deal you can buy out I guess (and this is why I suggest trading him now if you can so you can avoid it down the road).


Huberdeau's deal is by far the worst in the league. It doesn't hurt the Flames today, and that's great. However, it will definitely hurt down the road, unless the Flames aren't drafting well.


Feaster and Treliving had it easy. No bad contracts on the books. Conroy doesn't have that luxury.



I really like Huberdeau the person. I can't imagine that this has been easy for him. Yeah, sure, he can buy a bunch of really nice cars and make himself feel better, but he is also a human being with some feelings and a lot of pride too. Being labelled as the worst contract in the league must sting. Watching your former teammates lift the cup must sting. Being the butt-end of jokes must sting. I feel really sorry for him, regardless of how much money he is making. This sucks. It sucks for him, and it sucks for the Flames. Hopefully he finds a way to turn his game around a bit, but if that's the rate that he is producing at now, in 3 or 4 years I imagine it will be worse.


This is why I really hope that the Flames end up trading Kadri. He is good/fair value today, but the Flames can't afford to have 17.5 million in almost 'dead' cap space when they have a bunch of talented kids to re-sign, or even 10.5 + whatever Kadri's buyout cap hit is (at least Kadri's deal you can buy out).



Conroy is really handicapped here down the road.


As for being able to move Huberdeau's deal - I bet they will be able to, but it will still be expensive. Right now, it takes a 1st round pick to move 6 million for a year. With the rising cap (and assuming the cap continues to rise until the end of Huberdeau's deal), it will probably take a 1st round pick to move Huberdeau's last year, give or take. It won't be cheap. It isn't even front-loaded, so that cash-strapped teams that are rebuilding would at least be more willing to take it on.


That's why it is the league's worst deal. There isn't another contract that I wouldn't trade it for. I can't stand Nurse and that deal for him is atrocious, but it is shorter now and easier to buy out. PLD? Easier to buy out. Jones? I would make that swap all day long.



The good thing is that Huberdeau is not sulking, he plays hard, and is not a liability. He hasn't 'retired' or given up, even though the Flames sold at the deadline. I was specifically looking at him (and Kadri) to see if they would just start mailing it in. They both certainly had some bad games here and there, but they both played well even down the stretch, which was nice to see.



It will be interesting to see how Huberdeau's production continues over the next couple of years, and if he continues playing like he gives a damn. I have yet to complain about Huberdeau, but his contract is the absolute worst in the NHL at the moment, and though it doesn't hurt today, it most assuredly will assuming the Flames draft well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We have 20 million in cap room right now, and the cap is going up.

I don't think it should be a concern.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We have 20 million in cap room right now, and the cap is going up.

I don't think it should be a concern.

Even if it is, there's no point in fussing about it right now.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Even if it is, there's no point in fussing about it right now.

Why not? It's a fan forum for a hockey team.
Everything posted here is meaningless.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by traptor

Why not? It's a fan forum for a hockey team.
Everything posted here is meaningless.

By the time his contract poses any sort of issue it'll be close to the end i.e the final 3 years.

And even then, his 10 million dollar contract will likely take less than 10 percent of the cap ceiling.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It amazes me that some people don't think the Huberdeau contract is going to be a huge concern down the road. Is it a concern today? Of course not. However, in 4 years, the Flames will likely be re-signing two young superstars - Parekh (who will probably go back to Junior for a year) and whomever they draft next year in the top 5, who is likely to play right away. Potential 10+ million deals each (assuming they work out). Then the Flames are likely to have a few more - they are likely to be picking in the top 5 for the next 3 seasons starting with this one. That's 2 more high end players that you probably want to extend to long-term deals. Plus you will have other players stepping forward - maybe Wolf? Brzustewicz? Morin? Other players? I mean, if the rebuild goes correctly, then cap space will be used up pretty damn quickly.



Huberdeau's 10.5 million (and Kadri's 7 million) are going to be impediments on extending certain players, and will probably require sweeteners to be added in trade. One year of Huberdeau's deal will probably be worth a first assuming that the cap rises. Kadri's deal you can buy out I guess (and this is why I suggest trading him now if you can so you can avoid it down the road).


Huberdeau's deal is by far the worst in the league. It doesn't hurt the Flames today, and that's great. However, it will definitely hurt down the road, unless the Flames aren't drafting well.


Feaster and Treliving had it easy. No bad contracts on the books. Conroy doesn't have that luxury.



I really like Huberdeau the person. I can't imagine that this has been easy for him. Yeah, sure, he can buy a bunch of really nice cars and make himself feel better, but he is also a human being with some feelings and a lot of pride too. Being labelled as the worst contract in the league must sting. Watching your former teammates lift the cup must sting. Being the butt-end of jokes must sting. I feel really sorry for him, regardless of how much money he is making. This sucks. It sucks for him, and it sucks for the Flames. Hopefully he finds a way to turn his game around a bit, but if that's the rate that he is producing at now, in 3 or 4 years I imagine it will be worse.


This is why I really hope that the Flames end up trading Kadri. He is good/fair value today, but the Flames can't afford to have 17.5 million in almost 'dead' cap space when they have a bunch of talented kids to re-sign, or even 10.5 + whatever Kadri's buyout cap hit is (at least Kadri's deal you can buy out).



Conroy is really handicapped here down the road.


As for being able to move Huberdeau's deal - I bet they will be able to, but it will still be expensive. Right now, it takes a 1st round pick to move 6 million for a year. With the rising cap (and assuming the cap continues to rise until the end of Huberdeau's deal), it will probably take a 1st round pick to move Huberdeau's last year, give or take. It won't be cheap. It isn't even front-loaded, so that cash-strapped teams that are rebuilding would at least be more willing to take it on.


That's why it is the league's worst deal. There isn't another contract that I wouldn't trade it for. I can't stand Nurse and that deal for him is atrocious, but it is shorter now and easier to buy out. PLD? Easier to buy out. Jones? I would make that swap all day long.



The good thing is that Huberdeau is not sulking, he plays hard, and is not a liability. He hasn't 'retired' or given up, even though the Flames sold at the deadline. I was specifically looking at him (and Kadri) to see if they would just start mailing it in. They both certainly had some bad games here and there, but they both played well even down the stretch, which was nice to see.



It will be interesting to see how Huberdeau's production continues over the next couple of years, and if he continues playing like he gives a damn. I have yet to complain about Huberdeau, but his contract is the absolute worst in the NHL at the moment, and though it doesn't hurt today, it most assuredly will assuming the Flames draft well.

Does anyone think the Huberdeau contract won't be down the road? Huberdeau will be 37, on the verge of being 38, when the contract is done.

Virtually every massive 8 year contract, involving a potential UFA, is going to be bad at its end. You sign a superstar expecting them to be good for 4 years into their late 20s and early 30s. Then they decline for 2 years and then they are an anchor for 2 years. That's typically a best case scenario, if things work out.

Typically, the only way those contracts aren't bad, in the later years, is when the superstar takes a discount. Huberdeau definitely didn't take a discount.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It amazes me that some people don't think the Huberdeau contract is going to be a huge concern down the road. Is it a concern today? Of course not. However, in 4 years, the Flames will likely be re-signing two young superstars - Parekh (who will probably go back to Junior for a year) and whomever they draft next year in the top 5, who is likely to play right away. Potential 10+ million deals each (assuming they work out). Then the Flames are likely to have a few more - they are likely to be picking in the top 5 for the next 3 seasons starting with this one. That's 2 more high end players that you probably want to extend to long-term deals. Plus you will have other players stepping forward - maybe Wolf? Brzustewicz? Morin? Other players? I mean, if the rebuild goes correctly, then cap space will be used up pretty damn quickly.

They won't likely be signing 2 young superstars. While it may happen, the odds are long that they'll be signing even one superstar.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by dammage79

By the time his contract poses any sort of issue it'll be close to the end i.e the final 3 years.

And even then, his 10 million dollar contract will likely take less than 10 percent of the cap ceiling.

It's just speculation. I don't know why some users try and police what people speculate about.

So say the cap hits 150million (very optimistic) in that time frame. JH contract would still be 7% of that. Which is second line player money. That's a huge albatross to work around.

He's will go from his current 12% to somewhere around 7% in his time with us. So he's going from a high paid 1st liner to an average paid 2nd liner.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It amazes me that some people don't think the Huberdeau contract is going to be a huge concern down the road. Is it a concern today? Of course not. However, in 4 years, the Flames will likely be re-signing two young superstars - Parekh (who will probably go back to Junior for a year) and whomever they draft next year in the top 5, who is likely to play right away. Potential 10+ million deals each (assuming they work out). Then the Flames are likely to have a few more - they are likely to be picking in the top 5 for the next 3 seasons starting with this one. That's 2 more high end players that you probably want to extend to long-term deals. Plus you will have other players stepping forward - maybe Wolf? Brzustewicz? Morin? Other players? I mean, if the rebuild goes correctly, then cap space will be used up pretty damn quickly.



Huberdeau's 10.5 million (and Kadri's 7 million) are going to be impediments on extending certain players, and will probably require sweeteners to be added in trade. One year of Huberdeau's deal will probably be worth a first assuming that the cap rises. Kadri's deal you can buy out I guess (and this is why I suggest trading him now if you can so you can avoid it down the road).


Huberdeau's deal is by far the worst in the league. It doesn't hurt the Flames today, and that's great. However, it will definitely hurt down the road, unless the Flames aren't drafting well.


Feaster and Treliving had it easy. No bad contracts on the books. Conroy doesn't have that luxury.



I really like Huberdeau the person. I can't imagine that this has been easy for him. Yeah, sure, he can buy a bunch of really nice cars and make himself feel better, but he is also a human being with some feelings and a lot of pride too. Being labelled as the worst contract in the league must sting. Watching your former teammates lift the cup must sting. Being the butt-end of jokes must sting. I feel really sorry for him, regardless of how much money he is making. This sucks. It sucks for him, and it sucks for the Flames. Hopefully he finds a way to turn his game around a bit, but if that's the rate that he is producing at now, in 3 or 4 years I imagine it will be worse.


This is why I really hope that the Flames end up trading Kadri. He is good/fair value today, but the Flames can't afford to have 17.5 million in almost 'dead' cap space when they have a bunch of talented kids to re-sign, or even 10.5 + whatever Kadri's buyout cap hit is (at least Kadri's deal you can buy out).



Conroy is really handicapped here down the road.


As for being able to move Huberdeau's deal - I bet they will be able to, but it will still be expensive. Right now, it takes a 1st round pick to move 6 million for a year. With the rising cap (and assuming the cap continues to rise until the end of Huberdeau's deal), it will probably take a 1st round pick to move Huberdeau's last year, give or take. It won't be cheap. It isn't even front-loaded, so that cash-strapped teams that are rebuilding would at least be more willing to take it on.


That's why it is the league's worst deal. There isn't another contract that I wouldn't trade it for. I can't stand Nurse and that deal for him is atrocious, but it is shorter now and easier to buy out. PLD? Easier to buy out. Jones? I would make that swap all day long.



The good thing is that Huberdeau is not sulking, he plays hard, and is not a liability. He hasn't 'retired' or given up, even though the Flames sold at the deadline. I was specifically looking at him (and Kadri) to see if they would just start mailing it in. They both certainly had some bad games here and there, but they both played well even down the stretch, which was nice to see.



It will be interesting to see how Huberdeau's production continues over the next couple of years, and if he continues playing like he gives a damn. I have yet to complain about Huberdeau, but his contract is the absolute worst in the NHL at the moment, and though it doesn't hurt today, it most assuredly will assuming the Flames draft well.

Two words: Huberdeau Island.

Joking aside, I don’t think this presents itself as an issue for 4-5 years. A lot can and will happen between now and then to the point of it’s not even worth seriously considering as a major concern at this point.

I think the Flames will try to rebuild Huberdeau to the point where, with retention, they may be able to move that contract. Meantime, I think they will try to thread the needle of pumping up Huberdeau’s stock to the point he’s moveable in 2-3 years time and rebuilding. Right now, no one is taking him nor would the Flsmes retain for that period of time, I don’t believe.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bubba17

The day Panthers won the cup Zito on the ice said he had to change his team from one that was all out offence to a defence first team. It was nothing to do with Huberdeau not being a playoff performer, it was his whole team. Before Tkachuk had his first playoff season in Florida he wasn't a "playoff performer" for Calgary either.

Tkachuk may not have been a playoff performer at the time, but I think everyone knew he could be based on how he plays. Players in their early 20s don't always go right into being playoff performers. Heck, we have "prospects" that are the same age or older than Tkachuk was when people expected playoffs excellence from him.

[dino7c]

The Panthers made a ton of changes and had a lot of good fortune as well beyond this trade...I mean they changed their entire system and coaching staff and had a goalie go from worst contract in the NHL to top 5 goalie...maybe even top 3.

For the position the Flames were in it was a great trade...Huberdeau falling off the face of the earth and Brad giving away the first is basically a worst case scenario and its still not bad. Like I said, reverse the trade tomorrow and the Flames aren't much improved. Better at forward and worse at D, still not very good. Tkachuk seems to do better in the east too...maybe its a style thing? He struggles with run and gun teams like the Oilers.

[Sylvanfan]

If the Flames are looking at handing out 3 contracts of 14 million AAV to emerging stars in 5 years time and need to navigate around the Huberdeau problem...I'll be jumping for joy!

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

They won't likely be signing 2 young superstars. While it may happen, the odds are long that they'll be signing even one superstar.

I am assuming that you assumed I meant signing a UFA? I was referencing from the draft his past draft + likely 2-3 more draft's worth of high picks. Those are the superstars I am referencing.

Originally Posted by TOfan

Two words: Huberdeau Island.

Joking aside, I don’t think this presents itself as an issue for 4-5 years. A lot can and will happen between now and then to the point of it’s not even worth seriously considering as a major concern at this point.

I think the Flames will try to rebuild Huberdeau to the point where, with retention, they may be able to move that contract. Meantime, I think they will try to thread the needle of pumping up Huberdeau’s stock to the point he’s moveable in 2-3 years time and rebuilding. Right now, no one is taking him nor would the Flsmes retain for that period of time, I don’t believe.

Jokes aside, Huberdeau Island may end up happening - at least it is a plausible ending, though I do hope that he doesn't get injured and so on. As much as I have complained about his deal, he seems like a really great person, so I would never wish for that outcome.


I agree that long-term retention on Huberdeau will not happen. That's just a lot of years. Maybe if Huberdeau puts up back-to-back 100+ point seasons, he could be movable? I just think that his contract has ended up being so widely thought of as the worst now, that most GMs would be so apprehensive about bringing him in. Skinner rebounded, and though there may have been takers for him that Skinner nixed with his no-trade, it was still widely viewed as a very negative deal.



I do, however, agree that there is absolutely no issue with that deal for 4 season, probably 5. However, every season that passes, it becomes an ever larger issue. Parekh + next year's draft pick can probably be fit in with Huberdeau and the rest of the team, but if there is another break-out kid that explodes in the next 3 - 4 seasons, suddenly the budget tightens, and the season after with another kid or two coming out of his ELC, it further puts the squeeze on Conroy. That's how I see it, and I don't really see much of a way out of it at this point, which is the real reason I would want to trade Kadri asap, before he becomes a negative contract you have to buy out that is likely to further squeeze the cap room on the Flames when they start needing it.


I just see it as a handicap, but you are right, there really isn't much point in talking about it now. Let's just hope that Conroy is able to fit-in all the important pieces down the road, and can identify the fat that he can cut off.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The last 2 lockouts brought in a compliance buyout. I think the next one will get us one of those as well.

We can use that on Huberdeau. I don't think his contract is a big deal, and probably is a blessing is disguise. We probably load the team up with a bunch of other crappy contracts if he didn't have the big cap hit.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

We have 20 million in cap room right now, and the cap is going up.

I don't think it should be a concern.

The players know this too, that's why it doesn't matter if the cap is $50M or $200M. They negotiate a percentage of cap based on the present cap projection for the duration of the contract. It doesn't "look any better" when the cap goes up; it's already been baked in.