Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Azure

Most of the people I know who describe themselves as being 'woke', think they are more open and aware to the needs of other people around them, including marginalized groups, but in reality they are some of the most ignorant closed minded people I know, and they show it on social media.

It is amazing how much ones perspective changes when you actually get out in the real world and talk to people versus just preaching on social media.

Sorry, you actually know people that describe themselves as 'woke'? To me would be a red flag. It's something adjacent to "I have black friends" when describing why they aren't racist.

[Fuzz]

That was my first thought as well. The only people using woke unironically are those hell bent on preventing change. You know, classic hardcore Conservatives. It's kinda right there in the name.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I have, I swear to God, been involved in a conversation where someone wanted to get to the bottom of whether it was okay for upper middle class white people like those of us at the table to use the term "woke" in the way that they had been doing to describe their various efforts in the arena of social justice, because of the concern that it could be interpreted as an appropriation of black culture.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sorry, you actually know people that describe themselves as 'woke'? To me would be a red flag. It's something adjacent to "I have black friends" when describing why they aren't racist.

None of Azure’s anecdotes resemble anything based in reality.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sorry, you actually know people that describe themselves as 'woke'? To me would be a red flag. It's something adjacent to "I have black friends" when describing why they aren't racist.

Yup, not even kidding.

You'd be surprised how the younger generation refers to themselves when trying to fit in.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

That was my first thought as well. The only people using woke unironically are those hell bent on preventing change. You know, classic hardcore Conservatives. It's kinda right there in the name.

Or those who want to impose their views on others, which aren't just the 'classic hardcore conservatives' in case you weren't aware.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Or those who want to impose their views on others, which aren't just the 'classic hardcore conservatives' in case you weren't aware.

LOL, like David Parker, and well, the entire Republican party?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I have, I swear to God, been involved in a conversation where someone wanted to get to the bottom of whether it was okay for upper middle class white people like those of us at the table to use the term "woke" in the way that they had been doing to describe their various efforts in the arena of social justice, because of the concern that it could be interpreted as an appropriation of black culture.

I don't know how I'd answer that question without first asking "what the f--k are you on about?"

It is kind of funny, though, how the word's usage has progressed.

1930s: Stay woke!
2010: Stay woke!
2017: Stay woke! Also, woke is in the Oxford dictionary! Yay!
2020: Political right: The left is all about being woke. Political left: F--k you, stop calling us that.

[Ozy_Flame]

I consider myself centrist or slightly left of center, and I am a millennial, and I have a progressive community here in Ontario and I have yet to encounter anyone who actively calls themself "woke". I don't think I've ever seen that applied as a self-label or when describing one's self.

I am genuinely intrigued how right-leaning Azure has a rolodex of supposedly left-leaning people who not only proactively call themselves 'woke' but also coincidentally are absolute chuds while doing it. Color me impressed his circle of contacts also has multiple of these types of people.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This is about the third time I’ve posted on the subject in a year. Meanwhile, there are people here who have been making the same rants about the UCP ten times a week, every week, for years. So if you’re going to start policing posters for being repetitive in political threads, you’ve got your work cut out for you.

I'm not policing anything. It'd just be nice if you had anything recent to contribute instead of relying on the same tired tropes. Do you truly believe the socioeconomic, political, etc., climates haven't shifted since those articles came out?

At least the people ranting about the UCP are using current topics and articles. You keep regurgitating stuff that is 3-4 years old and has already been debated on here.

Also, you seem to keep confusing "the left," which has traditionally spanned from social democrats to communists, but are generally similar in their class-based discourse and opposition to capitalism with socially conscious liberals, who subscribe to identity politics but are still neoliberal in terms of their economic beliefs. They're not interchangeable just because conservatives keep shifting the overton window to the extreme right.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

As a lawyer, here’s what concerns me. Again, quoting Levitt:

-Peterson’s are not phantom concerns. Only four years ago, the Law Society of Ontario, which regulates the province’s lawyers, passed a statement of principles requiring all Ontario lawyers to subscribe to and sign a statement agreeing to promote certain values of diversity inclusion and equity (referred to as DIE by Peterson) prescribed by it, arguably in disregard of the Charter freedoms of thought, belief, opinion, expression, conscience and religion. I and many others risked our licences by refusing to sign believing it not the role of our regulator to order us how to think. And I did this as the senior partner of one of the most diverse firms in the country.

- Lawyers were so up in arms that a slate of bencher (the term for directors of the law society) candidates ran directly in opposition to the society’s overreach and every single one was elected. They were elected because Ontario lawyers were worried that the LSO, empowered by this statement of principles, would conduct itself precisely in the fashion which the College of Psychologists just has and order witch hunts against the politically incorrect.

Interestingly, the regulatory overreach in the Peterson case should give this slate, who are running again on similar principles against an establishment slate, a new lease on life in the upcoming bencher election.

Your history of the Ontario Law Society is inaccurate and incomplete. StopSOP won 22 seats in 2019 on a basically surprise campaign - no slates had ever run before and law society elections are an apathetic affair in general, and a result of the way votes are counted in Bencher elections (note - the top vote getter for that coalition got 5K votes, whereas 11 voters did not vote for any member of that slate). They didn't win every single race. There were 45 seats to win - they didn't run in them all and they lost at leats one. They failed to have the "statement of principles" that they ran against removed. Last election they were opposed and lost every single race they were in (36 in total).

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I consider myself centrist or slightly left of center, and I am a millennial, and I have a progressive community here in Ontario and I have yet to encounter anyone who actively calls themself "woke". I don't think I've ever seen that applied as a self-label or when describing one's self.

I am genuinely intrigued how right-leaning Azure has a rolodex of supposedly left-leaning people who not only proactively call themselves 'woke' but also coincidentally are absolute chuds while doing it. Color me impressed his circle of contacts also has multiple of these types of people.

I never describe myself as woke. But when I stop and think about what it actually means, I'd be OK with being called woke.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I never describe myself as woke. But when I stop and think about what it actually means, I'd be OK with being called woke.

The only meaning it has is a way to dismiss and denigrate those advocating for change.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm not policing anything. It'd just be nice if you had anything recent to contribute instead of relying on the same tired tropes. Do you truly believe the socioeconomic, political, etc., climates haven't shifted since those articles came out?

At least the people ranting about the UCP are using current topics and articles. You keep regurgitating stuff that is 3-4 years old and has already been debated on here.

Mounk’s book came out a few months ago and got a lot of coverage. It’s a good-faith attempt to describe a movement that’s reluctant to even acknowledge that it’s a movement or accept any name. The deep cleavages between whatever-we-call-it and liberalism remain. They’re still relevant to contemporary issues.

And again, all sorts of stuff gets debated here endlessly, for years and years, with the same people making the same points. There’s nothing saying these threads are restricted to current events.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Also, you seem to keep confusing "the left," which has traditionally spanned from social democrats to communists, but are generally similar in their class-based discourse and opposition to capitalism with socially conscious liberals, who subscribe to identity politics but are still neoliberal in terms of their economic beliefs. They're not interchangeable just because conservatives keep shifting the overton window to the extreme right.

I didn’t use ‘the left’ anywhere in my comment. And differentiating between politics centred on economic egalitarianism, and politics that reify race, gender and sexual identity is exactly what I’m trying to do. ‘Liberalism’ is not a useful term for the latter, since the champions of whatever-we-call-it vocally disavow core liberal principles.

If you don’t find the subject interesting, just keep scrolling.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I consider myself centrist or slightly left of center, and I am a millennial, and I have a progressive community here in Ontario and I have yet to encounter anyone who actively calls themself "woke". I don't think I've ever seen that applied as a self-label or when describing one's self.

I am genuinely intrigued how right-leaning Azure has a rolodex of supposedly left-leaning people who not only proactively call themselves 'woke' but also coincidentally are absolute chuds while doing it. Color me impressed his circle of contacts also has multiple of these types of people.

Imagine being so ignorant to assume that someone that you never never met but have have labelled as 'right leaning' can't have friends or acquaintances on different sides of the political spectrum.

But thanks for literally proving my point about how easy it is to sit behind your computer and label people you don't know.

[Ozy_Flame]

But you are right-leaning. There's enough content from you to know quite well.

You're also very angry lol

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

But you are right-leaning. There's enough content from you to know quite well.

You're also very angry lol

Again, you are just labelling someone you have never actually met, and have honestly only ever discussed a very specific group of topics with.

Which like I said is a major problem with how things work these days, especially on social media and apparently, hockey message boards.

If I were to look at my voting record, I have voted left more than right. Not that you care about that.

[GioforPM]

There's a small hole in Mounk's work.

https://medium.com/3streams/the-cons...p-aacb860788b0

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Azure

Again, you are just labelling someone you have never actually met, and have honestly only ever discussed a very specific group of topics with.

Which like I said is a major problem with how things work these days, especially on social media and apparently, hockey message boards.

If I were to look at my voting record, I have voted left more than right. Not that you care about that.

Azure: 19 years on CP, 35,000+ posts

Also Azure: YOU DONT KNOW ME!

I think I have a good grasp.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

‘Liberalism’ is not a useful term for the latter, since the champions of whatever-we-call-it vocally disavow core liberal principles.

Sure it is. You're just pulling a "no true Scotsman."

At the core of this movement is the belief that the only way to achieve whatever they consider to be equality/justice is by influencing the free market. That is an inherently liberal value.

They do not see the free market and capitalism as primary obstacles to justice and equality..