Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Bob Mackenzie's poll of scouts has Andre Burakowski at 7 in Sept; 14th in January
ISS has him at 17 in their March ranking
Button has him at 39, up from 46th in March

Some variability in rating this player

quoting Button:

Ends in "owski"....can't be long until we draft this guy. I predict we take him with the Penguins pick.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bar-Down

What do you guys think about Jordan Subban?

Putting up really good points in his second year in the OHL.

51 points in 68 games, +22. 15 G, 36A.

Would be nice if we had a 2nd rounder, or maybe get him with our early 3rd round pick?

I think he's pretty small... that being said I'd strongly consider it for the third round or after (although if he's at 35 in TSN rankings he'd have to fall pretty far). I'd rather the team take a smaller more skilled player in those mid-to-late rounds then a guy with a big frame and middling projectability. Comparatively speaking not many NHL'ers end up coming out of those rounds so if your bust probability is going to be high anyways I think you should take the guy with the potential for the most boom. Plus he's a "name" so there's a bit of a P.R. bonus that would be associated with drafting a Subban.

Same deal with Taylor Cammarata... really small forward (Gaudreau level small) going the NCAA Division I route, leads the USHL is scoring and is projected to be picked right around where the Flames draft in round three.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I have had that hunch too. I'm beginning to hope so actually. Massive frame, excellent playmaking skills, excellent skater. Almost a total package.

And won't play a game for the Flames for at least 2 seasons.

It's a move that screams Flames management.

[Flamin' DBag]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And won't play a game for the Flames for at least 2 seasons.

It's a move that screams Flames management.

I don't think they'll end up going for Nichushkin. I think flames management will be looking to put a player from this draft into the NHL next season. If the flames pick outside of Jones, Drouin and MacKinnon I can't see them skipping on Barkov.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

And won't play a game for the Flames for at least 2 seasons.

It's a move that screams Flames management.

Respectfully, you don't have a flying fig of what the player will or wont do. Clearly the Flames, if they're interested, will interview him and determine what his plans are. If he doesn't want to come over then they wont draft him.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Respectfully, you don't have a flying fig of what the player will or wont do. Clearly the Flames, if they're interested, will interview him and determine what his plans are. If he doesn't want to come over then they wont draft him.

I don't know exactly what he'll do, but I do know he has a contract in the KHL for the next two years, making far more money than any amount he can make on an ELC in the NHL.

This team needs this pick to play next season. They need a player fans can get excited about.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't know exactly what he'll do, but I do know he has a contract in the KHL for the next two years, making far more money than any amount he can make on an ELC in the NHL.

This team needs this pick to play next season. They need a player fans can get excited about.

Why?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Respectfully, you don't have a flying fig of what the player will or wont do. Clearly the Flames, if they're interested, will interview him and determine what his plans are. If he doesn't want to come over then they wont draft him.

Does not matter what the kid say's when the flames talk to him. The flames are in no position to take any risk with their 1st pick at the draft.

If St.Louis loses some games, gets booted in the 1st round, leaving the flames with a 16-17th pick, i still don't think they can take a chance on him with their 2nd pick. The flames have the one of the worst propsect list in the league and already have last years 1st round pick in the boom or bust catagory.

[AC]

Originally Posted by timbit

Mentioned it earlier, Calgary will take the Russian. Just a hunch.

Which Russian are you talking about? Zykov with the St. Louis pick (assuming it exists)?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Why?

Why? Because this team needs to start creating an identity. Right now, it doesn't have one. There's only Baerschi to be excited for next season.

Nichushkin, a Russian, is not a face you can sell as well as MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, or Barkov. Additionally, despite many scouts ranking Nichushkin 2nd overall, I've seen many more with these 4 locked in the top 4 in some way or another.

Why risk it? You can either take MacKinnon, who is constantly ranked top 3 (many first overall), who is Canadian, captain material, and will no question play in the NHL next season...

...or you can take Nichushkin, who will most likely wait until the 2015-2016 season to make his debut, is less marketable, and really, doesn't have good numbers in the KHL. And that's without mentioning that he's a winger.

I'm not going to act like I've seen Nichushkin play, but there are way too many red flags for a team in our position.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why?
...or you can take Nichushkin, who will most likely wait until the 2015-2016 season to make his debut, is less marketable, and really, doesn't have good numbers in the KHL.

I'm not going to act like I've seen Nichushkin play, but there are way too many red flags for a team in our position.

I share many of your concerns, and also have not seen him play much, but really I think Malkin only had 12 points in the KHL at the same age- its a hard league to score in at 17

[Da_Chief]

Zykov sound interesting. Just looking at the teams before our 2nd pick not sure how many of them can afford to risk it with Nichushkin. Probably CBJ with their 2nd pick? Davidson gambled with Tarasenko before. Maybe Devils, use Ilya to convince Nichushkin?

With the talent available in this, teams would rather not take the risk. Having that st.lou pick makes it interesting.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by looooob

I share many of your concerns, and also have not seen him play much, but really I think Malkin only had 12 points in the KHL at the same age- its a hard league to score in at 17

Yes, and part of that reason is because he only gets ~8 minutes a game. That's not an place I want my top prospect developing in for the next two seasons.

A lot of Flames fans wanted Collberg (like myself) with our first pick last draft, but I'm pretty glad we passed on that one now. He was averaging less than 4 minutes a night in the SEL before he was sent down this season. You can't develop players with that type of ice time.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Why? Because this team needs to start creating an identity. Right now, it doesn't have one. There's only Baerschi to be excited for next season.

Nichushkin, a Russian, is not a face you can sell as well as MacKinnon, Jones, Drouin, or Barkov. Additionally, despite many scouts ranking Nichushkin 2nd overall, I've seen many more with these 4 locked in the top 4 in some way or another.

Why risk it? You can either take MacKinnon, who is constantly ranked top 3 (many first overall), who is Canadian, captain material, and will no question play in the NHL next season...

...or you can take Nichushkin, who will most likely wait until the 2015-2016 season to make his debut, is less marketable, and really, doesn't have good numbers in the KHL. And that's without mentioning that he's a winger.

I'm not going to act like I've seen Nichushkin play, but there are way too many red flags for a team in our position.

Why should you care how marketable a player is? None of your arguments are based on the hockey he plays or on the contribution the player will have to the long-term success of the team. Ultimately, I could care less how marketable, Canadian or captain material a player is. I want to draft the best player. There are totally legit arguments that Mack is a better player than Nich. You seem to be, again, putting the short-term interests of the fans against the long-term prospects of the team because YOU want a player that you can cheer for next year instead of potentially a better player that wont play next year.

[Igster]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why should you care how marketable a player is?

The Flames don't have Iginla to market anymore. Would it really be so bad to have a highly ranked, big Canadian kid who will be in the lineup next year, on the roster for what would seem to be a rebuilding year and fans need something to get excited about?

I know that's what I want.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why should you care how marketable a player is? None of your arguments are based on the hockey he plays or on the contribution the player will have to the long-term success of the team. Ultimately, I could care less how marketable, Canadian or captain material a player is. I want to draft the best player. There are totally legit arguments that Mack is a better player than Nich. You seem to be, again, putting the short-term interests of the fans against the long-term prospects of the team because YOU want a player that you can cheer for next year instead of potentially a better player that wont play next year.

But there's nothing out there to suggest that Nichuskin IS a better hockey player than any of the big 4. You say he's the better prospect, but based upon what? A couple scouting reports that have him top 2, when compared to the vast majority that have him 5-10?

Again, why take that risk? What has Nichushkin done to show that he's so much better a prospect then MacKinnon to ignore his KHL contract?

Even if they were equal prospects, even if you ignore the contract, I take the Canadian centre ten times out of ten.

As to the marketing thing... I'm a fan. I want something to cheer for, a face to get excited about. Nichushkin doesn't do that for me for the reasons I've already mentioned. I was trying to make the point that picking Nichushkin over any of the big 4 isn't just a bad hockey move, it's a bad marketing move, for a team that cares so much about its public image.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Why should you care how marketable a player is? None of your arguments are based on the hockey he plays or on the contribution the player will have to the long-term success of the team. Ultimately, I could care less how marketable, Canadian or captain material a player is. I want to draft the best player. There are totally legit arguments that Mack is a better player than Nich. You seem to be, again, putting the short-term interests of the fans against the long-term prospects of the team because YOU want a player that you can cheer for next year instead of potentially a better player that wont play next year.

Has anyone seen him as a better prospect than Mackinnon to this point. I don't think the risk is necessary at all. Unless its with our second pick.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Respectfully, you don't have a flying fig of what the player will or wont do. Clearly the Flames, if they're interested, will interview him and determine what his plans are. If he doesn't want to come over then they wont draft him.

I think his signed contract says what he will or will not do for the next two years. Respectfully speaking of course.

[Canada 02]

http://www.tsn.ca/window/podcastcent...id=15185&id=65

Button and others on TSN do a monthly podcast on the draft. Loads of good discussion

[Tinordi]

I'm not pretending to know who the better prospect is or who the better player is. All I'm saying is that the Flames should be taking the best player not the most marketable and not the most Canadian. Obviously they need to draft a player that they think will have the franchise in their long-term plans but that applies to Mackinnon as well.

Here's a scenario, Mackinnon says in the interview that he actually wants to play out east and be close to his family while Nichushkin wants to be on a team that supports him and provides him with the resources to integrate well into North America.

Perfectly possible scenario. In that case I take the player who I think will be the org and who brings more on the ice.