2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Link on this in-depth discrediting please. Can’t see how you can look at the state of the organization and say it has not been worse at any time other than when Sutter was in charge. Huge gaps in the system, short on picks, and no top end prospects to speak of. Great job by Treliving.

I don’t disagree with some of your takes, Lanny. But I do t know what planet you’re living on relative to this one.

In the 2014 Flames system:
Monahan (already full time)
Gaudreau
Piorier
Klimchuck
Bartschi (traded for a pick who has turned out to be a top pair D by Treliving, no less)
Agostino
Hanowski
Bill Arnold
Retro Berra
Mark Cundari
Corban Knight
Roman Horak
Joni Ortio
Max Rienhart
Bryce Van Bryant
…..missing anyone?

Brutal. BRUTAL.
Fast forward 10 years, one is ‘elite’ and I’ll give you the 2014 draft including Bennett. I’m surprised you would even bring this up as an attempt to slight Treliving because it’s a pretty terrible argument,

That’s a big nothing burger, bud. Gaudreau’s good but he’s not carrying a team as we should all know.

I’ll take todays group over this collection and we haven’t been missing the playoffs year after year for several.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t disagree with some of your takes, Lanny. But I do t know what planet you’re living on relative to this one.

In the 2014 Flames system:
Monahan (already full time)
Gaudreau
Piorier
Klimchuck
Bartschi (traded for a pick who has turned out to be a top pair D by Treliving, no less)
Agostino
Hanowski
Bill Arnold
Retro Berra
Mark Cundari
Corban Knight
Roman Horak
Joni Ortio
Max Rienhart
Bryce Van Bryant
…..missing anyone?

Brutal. BRUTAL.
Fast forward 10 years, one is ‘elite’ and I’ll give you the 2014 draft including Bennett. I’m surprised you would even bring this up as an attempt to slight Treliving because it’s a pretty terrible argument,

That’s a big nothing burger, bud. Gaudreau’s good but he’s not carrying a team as we should all know.

I’ll take todays group over this collection and we haven’t been missing the playoffs year after year for several.

Missing Michael Ferland, Mark Jankowski, Brett Kulak, Markus Granlund, Garnet Hathaway and Josh Jooris.

I know you did not purposely forget 6 guys who played over 200 games each in the NHL to try to prove a point, but you did miss those guys.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Missing Michael Ferland, Mark Jankowski, Brett Kulak, Markus Granlund, Garnet Hathaway and Josh Jooris.

I know you did not purposely forget 6 guys who played over 200 games each in the NHL to try to prove a point, but you did miss those guys.

thanks.

Not surprised I missed some. I’ll stand by my point that the team/organization today is in far better shape today than it was when Treliving came on board.

[PepsiFree]

Really can’t believe you forgot generational talent Josh Jooris.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Really can’t believe you forgot generational talent Josh Jooris.

Fireable offense.

[dammage79]

Would we be so upset right now if they didn't trade away Monny and that 1st attached? Sinking seaso with 2 1sts??

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Would we be so upset right now if they didn't trade away Monny and that 1st attached? Sinking seaso with 2 1sts??

The first we traded away isn't this year's first, no?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

The first we traded away isn't this year's first, no?

Gonna have to get out the trade conditions on that one.

Thought is was FLAs or ours whichever was worse. Or is that '24.

NVM, it all starts in 24.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Really can’t believe you forgot generational talent Josh Jooris.

He remembered Bryce Van Bryant though, that is the key point.

[Toonage]

Van Brabant

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Missing Michael Ferland, Mark Jankowski, Brett Kulak, Markus Granlund, Garnet Hathaway and Josh Jooris.

I know you did not purposely forget 6 guys who played over 200 games each in the NHL to try to prove a point, but you did miss those guys.

Patrick Seiloff
John Gilles
John Ramage

this was after missing the playoffs for four straight years at that point.

….Just a terrible argument.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Patrick Seiloff
John Gilles
John Ramage

this was after missing the playoffs for four straight years at that point.

….Just a terrible argument.

I am glad you found players probably half this board has never heard of but missed current NHLers.

2012 draft - two players with more than 400 points (maybe a total of 4 will get 400+)
2013 draft - five players with more than 400 points (maybe 9 will get to 400+ in their career)
2015 draft - 6 players with more than 400 points (realistically looks like it will be 15+ total that get at least 400 points)
2016 draft - 2 players with more than 400 points (realistically looks like at least 14 will get 400+ points in their NHL career)

I would suggest it is possible that the 2012 and 2013 drafts just sucked, for absolutely everybody and that probably nobody had an impressive pipeline coming from those two drafts.

But we are great, look at how much success we are having. And how much stud talent we have under the age of 23 right now. The future is bright.

[Calgary4LIfe]

You either trust Treliving to do his job or you don't. If the organization isn't going to extend him - if they have reached that conclusion - then fire him now. If they haven't reached that conclusion yet, then he should have the same freedom to make the moves that he feels are right for the organization as he has had in years past. This is what you pay him for.


As for if he should be fired/not-renewed vs extended:
I am not sure how I feel. The lack of playoff success has become impossible to ignore for me, so I would side with just not retaining him beyond this season if I am pressed to pick. However, I wouldn't complain much if he was extended.



I do not feel he 'sucks'. I have mostly agreed with his moves. I just don't think he built a winner at any time. Last year was about as close as this team has ever been to a contender. However, they have been nothing more than a paper tiger. I don't think that hiring just anyone would be an improvement. One thing I have noticed is that he was unable to keep past playoff performers. I would have preferred he did more to retain those, and offered other players on trades. Of course I don't have insight into any negotiations, from a player perspective or with other GMs when trying to make trades, so who knows who could have been kept or not. I do wish that players that exceeded expectations in the playoffs were given some sort of priority. After all, when you are trying to be a good playoff team, you probably should try and keep/acquire strong playoff performers.

Here are arguments that I really feel are horse####, however.


1) They should keep Treliving because the next guy might be worse. Correct, the next guy might be worse. However, the next guy might be better too. Do people who make these arguments never apply to different employers, or take promotions, just in case things don't work out? When your shoe becomes worn out, do you not go to the store and buy a new one, or do you feel that the new shoe might be more uncomfortable? See the issue I have with this logic? It is fearmongering to win an argument. Hey, better not go to work on Monday, as you might get hit by a car crossing the street. I keep seeing more and more of these arguments, and it is becoming as cringe-inducing as the whole lousy "The definition of insanity" which is the least correct phrase being repeated ad nauseam everywhere (hey Mr. Walsh this morning).



2) Flames are an embarrassment under Treliving. No, they are not. They were an embarrassment under Feaster. Treliving has been competent by many standards - even exceptional in some areas. He handled the Peters drama quickly and professionally. He hasn't had any embarrassing trades, he has not tarnished the organization in any way, and if he left today, I would not remember him as anything other than a good GM who was simply unable to make this team a contender.


As for other comments I have seen:


"Conroy would be terrible." - Why? You don't know this, and neither do I. For all we know he may end up putting Yzerman to shame. inexperienced GMs are prone to making more mistakes, but he has also been in management a LOT longer than many 1st time GMs have.



"Sutter would destroy the franchise." - Again, why? Do people believe that first time GMs (who got the organization to a Game 7 Stanley Cup Final) wouldn't be able to learn from past mistakes? I am in no way campaigning for him, but who knows how he would be the 2nd time around. Were you amazing at your first kick of the can at a job? Is everyone?


"Maloney would be a mistake" - again, why? Coyotes were definitely much better under Maloney than without him. He had little to work with too. I have no idea if he would be a mistake or not.


My favourite one is this:
"No good GM would want to work for Calgary." Well, Burke did. Maybe not everyone will, but GM jobs aren't always available anywhere. Working for an organization that spends to the cap certainly helps too. This one doesn't pass the smell test for me.


I am just going to relax and enjoy the rest of the season and see how this emotional rollercoaster ends. Maybe Treliving pulls off a few moves and this team goes on a run, and it continues into the playoffs. Maybe they implode. Trade deadline is coming, and that's always exciting/nerve-wracking.



The optimist in me sees it as a win-win, as I am sure one of two things happen:


1) This team goes on a run. That's exciting.
2) This team fails and changes are made. Changes are exciting.


If you watch sports only to cheer on a winner, then I suggest you stop following sports. I watch for the entertainment, the drama, the story-lines, and finally if everything goes perfectly, a championship after a long and difficult journey.



I am just excited for the trade deadline and to see whom else is traded to where, and what Calgary does or doesn't do.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You either trust Treliving to do his job or you don't. If the organization isn't going to extend him - if they have reached that conclusion - then fire him now. If they haven't reached that conclusion yet, then he should have the same freedom to make the moves that he feels are right for the organization as he has had in years past. This is what you pay him for.


As for if he should be fired/not-renewed vs extended:
I am not sure how I feel. The lack of playoff success has become impossible to ignore for me, so I would side with just not retaining him beyond this season if I am pressed to pick. However, I wouldn't complain much if he was extended.



I do not feel he 'sucks'. I have mostly agreed with his moves. I just don't think he built a winner at any time. Last year was about as close as this team has ever been to a contender. However, they have been nothing more than a paper tiger. I don't think that hiring just anyone would be an improvement. One thing I have noticed is that he was unable to keep past playoff performers. I would have preferred he did more to retain those, and offered other players on trades. Of course I don't have insight into any negotiations, from a player perspective or with other GMs when trying to make trades, so who knows who could have been kept or not. I do wish that players that exceeded expectations in the playoffs were given some sort of priority. After all, when you are trying to be a good playoff team, you probably should try and keep/acquire strong playoff performers.

Here are arguments that I really feel are horse####, however.


1) They should keep Treliving because the next guy might be worse. Correct, the next guy might be worse. However, the next guy might be better too. Do people who make these arguments never apply to different employers, or take promotions, just in case things don't work out? When your shoe becomes worn out, do you not go to the store and buy a new one, or do you feel that the new shoe might be more uncomfortable? See the issue I have with this logic? It is fearmongering to win an argument. Hey, better not go to work on Monday, as you might get hit by a car crossing the street. I keep seeing more and more of these arguments, and it is becoming as cringe-inducing as the whole lousy "The definition of insanity" which is the least correct phrase being repeated ad nauseam everywhere (hey Mr. Walsh this morning).



2) Flames are an embarrassment under Treliving. No, they are not. They were an embarrassment under Feaster. Treliving has been competent by many standards - even exceptional in some areas. He handled the Peters drama quickly and professionally. He hasn't had any embarrassing trades, he has not tarnished the organization in any way, and if he left today, I would not remember him as anything other than a good GM who was simply unable to make this team a contender.


As for other comments I have seen:


"Conroy would be terrible." - Why? You don't know this, and neither do I. For all we know he may end up putting Yzerman to shame. inexperienced GMs are prone to making more mistakes, but he has also been in management a LOT longer than many 1st time GMs have.



"Sutter would destroy the franchise." - Again, why? Do people believe that first time GMs (who got the organization to a Game 7 Stanley Cup Final) wouldn't be able to learn from past mistakes? I am in no way campaigning for him, but who knows how he would be the 2nd time around. Were you amazing at your first kick of the can at a job? Is everyone?


"Maloney would be a mistake" - again, why? Coyotes were definitely much better under Maloney than without him. He had little to work with too. I have no idea if he would be a mistake or not.


My favourite one is this:
"No good GM would want to work for Calgary." Well, Burke did. Maybe not everyone will, but GM jobs aren't always available anywhere. Working for an organization that spends to the cap certainly helps too. This one doesn't pass the smell test for me.


I am just going to relax and enjoy the rest of the season and see how this emotional rollercoaster ends. Maybe Treliving pulls off a few moves and this team goes on a run, and it continues into the playoffs. Maybe they implode. Trade deadline is coming, and that's always exciting/nerve-wracking.



The optimist in me sees it as a win-win, as I am sure one of two things happen:


1) This team goes on a run. That's exciting.
2) This team fails and changes are made. Changes are exciting.


If you watch sports only to cheer on a winner, then I suggest you stop following sports. I watch for the entertainment, the drama, the story-lines, and finally if everything goes perfectly, a championship after a long and difficult journey.



I am just excited for the trade deadline and to see whom else is traded to where, and what Calgary does or doesn't do.

All fair points but the one I’ll take with a grain of salt is No good GM would want to come to Calgary, specifically the Flames spending to the cap.

Is there any team that doesn’t? Other than Arizona pretty much every team has shown they will spend to the cap even if they aren’t right now. If they aren’t right now it’s because they aren’t committed to making the playoffs and will likely use their free cap space to facilitate trades with the added bonus of acquiring additional assets. In other words, not spending to the cap today is only better positioning themselves for when they do choose to spend to the cap down the road. Spending to the cap is like patting yourself on the back for tipping you server who did a good job 12%. Congrats, you did the right thing,but did you?? It’s an empty gesture to the fans to placate them and say ‘well, we did all we could’.

Treliving has been slagged for as long as I can remember for not hiring a quality coach. Whose decision do we think this was. Treliving’s? Why? Why would he want to hire coaches on the cheap? How does that benefit him? What rationale exists for that? If everyone in the room can see what is obvious, why do we assume Treliving can’t? Does anyone honestly believe Geoff Ward was his choice? ….Please. He didn’t have the support to go hire ‘someone’. When the organization did pony up, it was for Sutter and now that dark cloud has cast itself.

The issue for Treliving, or any potential GM, is what resources are available to the organization? How much is the organization willing to spend on scouting, coaching, development coaches, analytics, hockey ops, A NEW JOSH DARN BUILDING? How is this new individual going to work with Sutter? You can spend to the cap all you want but if you don’t have sufficient support, then your chances of success are going to be limited.

Going to work for the Calgary Flames might not be all that enticing.

[Sandman]

Out of thanks, but great post as always, Calgary4Life! Agree with everything, except the Sutter for GM part- I still don't have faith in him in the GM's seat....

[Sandman]

Just for s**ts and giggles:

In the most recent edition of THN's yearly Money and Power issue, Murray Edwards is ranked 6th (3rd for owners, behind Jeremy Jacobs of the Bruins and Craig Leipold of Minny), and Brad Treliving is ranked 43rd (5th for GM's behind Holland, Yzerman, Poile, and Armstrong). This issue talks about people of power and influence- Edwards is always ranked very highly, and Tre always makes the list too.

[Sandman]

Nhltraderumors says Timo Meier is down to 4 teams: Hurricanes, Stars, Devils, Flames. Obviously, take it with a grain of salt.

[Pickle Juice]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Nhltraderumors says Timo Meier is down to 4 teams: Hurricanes, Stars, Devils, Flames. Obviously, take it with a grain of salt.

He would be my number 1 trade addition as long as the contract could be sorted out! Is NHLtraderumors ever correct?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Nhltraderumors says Timo Meier is down to 4 teams: Hurricanes, Stars, Devils, Flames. Obviously, take it with a grain of salt.

He would be a pure rental as he is a UFA and we cannot re-sign him but I think our 2023 1st, Zary and Wolf for Meier and a 2025 3rd should get it done. Get Meier for the playoffs this year and some youth in 2025.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Pickle Juice

He would be my number 1 trade addition as long as the contract could be sorted out! Is NHLtraderumors ever correct?

They are correct sometimes because they throw A TON of crap at the wall. It’s the old adage about a broken clock being right twice a day, lol.

Just thought I would use it to get the speculation going….

Meier is my #1 as well, if I had a choice out of all the players that are in rumours. I think the Devils might be the perfect place for him.