2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Flamesfan05]

During his 10 years, the Flames won 1 qualifying round and two 1st round playoffs

I wouldn’t have problem with people that want him replaced

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames1217

Tree built an elite team and watched it crumble under circumstances that were not his own.

Except he didn't. He built a one-hit wonder, which is not an elite team. Elite teams are threats for more than a single season and not subject to deconstruction with the decision or action of a single player.

For me, Tree stays.

For me, he goes. The system is a terrible state. Zero high end prospects expected to step in and replace or supplement the top end talent. A whole bunch of middling talent in development, at best. The future has a massive gap in it after pushing all in last season and getting owned. I don't see good management of assets here, I see spaghetti tossed at a wall with hopes of something stickling. Yes, he has done some good things, but he has done as many bad things that have put the team in a bad position.

How many better GMs are actually on the market ?

Don't know, and don't care. You don't keep managers based on the fear of not being able to replace them, you keep them based on their performance and the status of the portfolio they manage. The portfolio Treliving manages is a ####show. Can't hire a coach to save his life. Can't manage the coach he has. Can't get on the same page as the coaches he's brought in. Has left the minor league system is much worse shape than he inherited and has burned through picks for middling talent, some that rarely played. For all these reasons he should be shown the door and the team move a different direction. Frankly, a full house cleaning is due. Everyone should be handed a pink slip and a full organizational rebuild should take place. Edwards has done with with other businesses, he should do it with the Flames.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

the team move a different direction. Frankly, a full house cleaning is due. Everyone should be handed a pink slip and a full organizational rebuild should take place. Edwards has done with with other businesses, he should do it with the Flames.

Ideally it would start with Edwards.

From there the whole hockey operations management team.

[Kasi]

Ran out of thanks but I’ll echo Lannys point. Too much just throwing stuff out hoping it will work. Sometimes it has sometimes it’s not but it shows a team that is reluctant to trust their own drafting and player development. So many picks that could have been something sent out for players that didn’t work. Since to me building a winner means building from within I’ll have to call Trev a failure and nice guy and all ten years is enough.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Except he didn't. He built a one-hit wonder, which is not an elite team. Elite teams are threats for more than a single season and not subject to deconstruction with the decision or action of a single player.



For me, he goes. The system is a terrible state. Zero high end prospects expected to step in and replace or supplement the top end talent. A whole bunch of middling talent in development, at best. The future has a massive gap in it after pushing all in last season and getting owned. I don't see good management of assets here, I see spaghetti tossed at a wall with hopes of something stickling. Yes, he has done some good things, but he has done as many bad things that have put the team in a bad position.



Don't know, and don't care. You don't keep managers based on the fear of not being able to replace them, you keep them based on their performance and the status of the portfolio they manage. The portfolio Treliving manages is a ####show. Can't hire a coach to save his life. Can't manage the coach he has. Can't get on the same page as the coaches he's brought in. Has left the minor league system is much worse shape than he inherited and has burned through picks for middling talent, some that rarely played. For all these reasons he should be shown the door and the team move a different direction. Frankly, a full house cleaning is due. Everyone should be handed a pink slip and a full organizational rebuild should take place. Edwards has done with with other businesses, he should do it with the Flames.

Thoroughly debunked by Juri and others on a number of occasions. The organization was in far worse shape when Treliving arrived. The fact you can’t acknowledge this discredits the rest of what you have to say.

I think it’s likely Treliving leaves and I also think it’s his call at the end of the day.

[GioforPM]

Treliving may leave. Or be let go because of a general lack of PO success. But he will be employed right afterwards.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Treliving may leave. Or be let go because of a general lack of PO success. But he will be employed right afterwards.

Agreed. Which is more than his predecessors can say.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'm also curious why on earth people think there is much chance they hire someone better given:
- He's probably the 2nd best GM in this franchise's history
- The organization doesn't have a great track record of hiring GMs
- Who would ultimately be picking the next GM?
- There is a chance they promote someone like Conroy with no experience in the position
- If they look externally this isn't exactly one of the prime GM seats in the league

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm also curious why on earth people think there is much chance they hire someone better given:
- He's probably the 2nd best GM in this franchise's history
- The organization doesn't have a great track record of hiring GMs
- Who would ultimately be picking the next GM?
- There is a chance they promote someone like Conroy with no experience in the position
- If they look externally this isn't exactly one of the prime GM seats in the league

Well said.

Also have to think it would be fair to say the Flames wouldn’t be among the more desirable locations in the league to be a GM, given their history. Until Sutter (good ol’ boy) came along the coaching budget appears to have been been on the lighter side of things. Anyone who comes in likely has to toe the line until Sutter decides to leave or it gets to the point where firing him is the only option.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well said.

Also have to think it would be fair to say the Flames wouldn’t be among the more desirable locations in the league to be a GM, given their history. Until Sutter (good ol’ boy) came along the coaching budget appears to have been been on the lighter side of things. Anyone who comes in likely has to toe the line until Sutter decides to leave or it gets to the point where firing him is the only option.

Everything Jiri says is well said, the voice of reason.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Brad can stay on as long as he kicks his infatuation with loading up on replacement level depth players

[dammage79]

I think Trelivings time is up here in CGY. Don't think he will extend if it was offered.

But I kind feel like at this point expect a full blown purge of the administrative side of the organization.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Thoroughly debunked by Juri and others on a number of occasions. The organization was in far worse shape when Treliving arrived. The fact you can’t acknowledge this discredits the rest of what you have to say.

I think it’s likely Treliving leaves and I also think it’s his call at the end of the day.

Link on this in-depth discrediting please. Can’t see how you can look at the state of the organization and say it has not been worse at any time other than when Sutter was in charge. Huge gaps in the system, short on picks, and no top end prospects to speak of. Great job by Treliving.

[dammage79]

I really liked what Dundon did in Carolina. They kind of just bought the Draft guides and picked off the lists.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Link on this in-depth discrediting please. Can’t see how you can look at the state of the organization and say it has not been worse at any time other than when Sutter was in charge. Huge gaps in the system, short on picks, and no top end prospects to speak of. Great job by Treliving.

I don't know, ki d of hard to do anything else if your owners have mandated the direction you had to take. Given what we think we know, the probability of the owners hiring Sutter over Trees head and telling tree go build a playoff team THIS season, is really high.

Flames org. has always always always been too shortsighted.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm also curious why on earth people think there is much chance they hire someone better given:
- He's probably the 2nd best GM in this franchise's history
- The organization doesn't have a great track record of hiring GMs
- Who would ultimately be picking the next GM?
- There is a chance they promote someone like Conroy with no experience in the position
- If they look externally this isn't exactly one of the prime GM seats in the league

He has not been perfect, no GM is but he certainly isn't the problem. Johnny G's ability to set up and score goals probably made for a happier locker room. The lack of effort, goaltending from certain players has been a key issue. Look how much rope Sutter has given Markstrom, thats a sign of a coach who is going to the wall for his player.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I think Trelivings time is up here in CGY. Don't think he will extend if it was offered.

But I kind feel like at this point expect a full blown purge of the administrative side of the organization.

I too think Treliving is gone, but I think for the opposite reason. I bet the offer is there, but he wants to go somewhere with less ownership influence

[Badgers Nose]

The big mystery I'd like solved is how much of these staff and player decisions were BT's. They should all have been his. If they were then maybe it is time to move on - he's had an equal number of hits and misses.

If they were not, then is it fair to judge BT if the coaching budget he had to work with was compromised by ownership? I'd love conclusive evidence that this actually happened. It seems counter intuitive that any high successful business owner would make decisions this way. Spending $3M on a good coach in the grand scheme of things seems like a small price to pay for a worthy custodian of a $80M payroll and a business with a $855M valuation.

Look at what one full year of Sutter with the old core got us. What did we miss out on due to poor coaches?

The current state is a depressing mess. If it really is because ownership tie BT's hands (I don't believe this) then what difference will a new GM make? Especially if we hire one on the cheap and they are young and easily pushed around by ownership.

If Edwards is really that involved with hockey decisions then what choice does anyone have except to stop cheering for the Flames? This isn't the EPL, protesting ownership won't spur a sale.

BT may be the 3rd best GM in Flames history, but that says more about the organization than it does BT's acumen. He might be better a President of Hockey Ops, a layer between ownership and the GM. That structure seems to be more popular these days and we lost that when Burke left (Maloney seems less involved).

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

The big mystery I'd like solved is how much of these staff and player decisions were BT's. They should all have been his. If they were then maybe it is time to move on - he's had an equal number of hits and misses.

If they were not, then is it fair to judge BT if the coaching budget he had to work with was compromised by ownership? I'd love conclusive evidence that this actually happened. It seems counter intuitive that any high successful business owner would make decisions this way. Spending $3M on a good coach in the grand scheme of things seems like a small price to pay for a worthy custodian of a $80M payroll and a business with a $855M valuation.

Look at what one full year of Sutter with the old core got us. What did we miss out on due to poor coaches?

The current state is a depressing mess. If it really is because ownership tie BT's hands (I don't believe this) then what difference will a new GM make? Especially if we hire one on the cheap and they are young and easily pushed around by ownership.

If Edwards is really that involved with hockey decisions then what choice does anyone have except to stop cheering for the Flames? This isn't the EPL, protesting ownership won't spur a sale.

BT may be the 3rd best GM in Flames history, but that says more about the organization than it does BT's acumen. He might be better a President of Hockey Ops, a layer between ownership and the GM. That structure seems to be more popular these days and we lost that when Burke left (Maloney seems less involved).

I think ownership meddling is more than speculation at this point.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I think ownership meddling is more than speculation at this point.

Yeah, mob sentiment maybe. Still seems way short of conclusive.

Has any former Flames executive ever publicly said that they were told what to do (players, coaches) by ownership?