Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

No. Terminate the contract immediately and cut ties. F*** the "palatable" route. I for one am very tired of the PC jargon to protect individuals not worthy of protection. Through the investigation that has gone on far too long, there is clear indication that a member of the organization was involved, at whatever capacity. Get rid of him.

Hey, that's why I used the word "expedient". I agree. And I reeeeaaally want to know when the Flames knew about this. It feels so unbelievably icky that they might have tried to use Kylington's return from mental health struggles to sanitize Dube's leave of absence. Has me reconsidering why I support the team, honestly.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again not sure why this is something people can't understand.
He could have been in mental crisis and under active care while still being one of the players charged.
Both can be true.

Go look at social media if you don't think this 'mental health' leave isn't a PR hit for the Flames.

It was a mistake and a dumb response.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Kylington and his representatives would have similarly had a say in how it was worded.

I'm always amazed at how people can judge such a complicated situation with such certainty while knowing so little about what actually happened.

Would you prefer a thread full of speculation exonerating the organisation and posters going “welp guess we’ll wait and see”?

[Scornfire]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

May not have had a choice. Better believe there were lawyers involved in the writing of that statement.

If you happen to know of any, I'd be interested to see some laws/legal precedent on an employer being REQUIRED to give specifics about an employees absence as determined and dictated by that employee, preventing them from making a blanket statement devoid of further detail.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

... just look north.



Evander Kane

Corey Perry

Right, not sure why I didn't think of those.

I'd be happy with a contract termination, I just wondered if the Flames would pursue that as an option, or let him go away quietly in 6 months as TheScorpion also suggested.

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Kylington and his representatives would have similarly had a say in how it was worded.

I'm always amazed at how people can judge such a complicated situation with such certainty while knowing so little about what actually happened.

I don't really need to know the specifics to know that the Flames made a bad decision here.

If the Flames let Dube and his representation control how they worded that release then that would be an even stupider decision.

All you have to say is "Dube is on a leave of absence" no need to go any further or elaborate more. It seems all the other teams were able to figure out how to word it, not sure why the Flames seem to be the only ones that had all these restrictions that forced them to include mental health as part of the release.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

It was an over disclosure though. I don't see how that was legally required.

The Flames would have been better off just saying personal reasons. I don't know whether Dube saying mental health reasons obliges the Flames to include that in the statement though.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Kylington and his representatives would have similarly had a say in how it was worded.

I'm always amazed at how people can judge such a complicated situation with such certainty while knowing so little about what actually happened.

I dunno man.

I think it's fair to critique it from a PR perspective.
You're not wrong, and I think folks can critque it, acknowledge it was probably cooked up in a lab, but still has a foul smell.

But ultimately to me the statement is small potatos compared to the legal case.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I agree it sucks for all sorts of reasons.
But I also think it is an evolution of how we thinkin about mental health.
Anyone can suffer from a mental health crisis. And just because you are - doesn't mean you are a good person or should be thought of as a hero.

My point was that many people, rightly or wrongly, will think that the mental health thing is associated with a person who did a bad thing. For an issue that already has a number of negative connotations it seemed unnecessary. I think it is the first time that the Flames have ever said a player had a mental health issue as well. It just is not ideal, should have probably just given him some time off and made him a healthy scratch and then let the rest of it play out (IMO). Telling the public why a player is not playing is not exactly what the NHL ever does, to do so is a special event.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

I wonder how Ottawa knew? (Assuming they knew and just did not decide not to sign a 6’3 22 year old power forward who got 18 goals in his rookie year).

His contract was up at a different time?

I dunno.

Whatever the rumours were, it was settled and gone away with.

From a business perspective, what else are they supposed to go on?

They can’t ask him, and he’s not gonna tell.

Distasteful, yes. Villainous… let’s not lose sight of who the real villains are.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They literally said that Kylington's was a "personal issue" when they did the exact same thing 18 months earlier.

They had no reason to say it was "mental health", and no way that legal would have indicated they disclose more information.

IMO Flames were trying to avoid people making the link and now are rightfully getting criticized for it.

I don't think they were trying to do that because it would be profoundly stupid. IF they knew what was coming, which they probably did, they would know people would make the link.
I strongly suspect they felt they had to word it the way they did. Which doesn't mean ultimately they made the right call. But I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

His contract was up at a different time?

I dunno.

Whatever the rumours were, it was settled and gone away with.

From a business perspective, what else are they supposed to go on?

They can’t ask him, and he’s not gonna tell.

Distasteful, yes. Villainous… let’s not lose sight of who the real villains are.

Could have been different appetites for risk in different organizations.

[driveway]

I have a lot of deep misgivings about the statement the Flames released and Dillon Dube tending to his mental health.

On the one hand mental health issues deserve deep sympathy, understanding, and support.

On the other hand, stress, shame, and guilt stemming from facing the consequences of such a disgusting illegal act are absolutely not mental health issues and are absolutely not deserving of sympathy, understanding, and support.

Furthermore, Dube is innocent until proven guilty and should be given the benefit of the doubt until evidence is presented in court, however there is such a stigma against mental health issues that I find myself angry at him and the Flames for even making me suspect they are using this as some kind of shield.

If it comes to light that anyone on the Flames advised Dube to cite mental health issues as his reason to step away, while knowing his struggles were stemming from facing these charges, I would like to see that person, as well as their direct superior in the organization, fired.

[Since1984]

First Topi Ronni and now this, terrible past 6 months for the flames second round picks.

[KelVarnsen]

This should cost a lot of people their jobs.

First has to be Bettman.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think they were trying to do that because it would be profoundly stupid. IF they knew what was coming, which they probably did, they would know people would make the link.
I strongly suspect they felt they had to word it the way they did. Which doesn't mean ultimately they made the right call. But I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

Why would they have to word it that way though?

They didn't word it that way when Kylington was on a mental health leave.

None of the other teams had to word it that way.

I doubt there is anything that forced them to word it that way, it's a choice they made.

[dieHARDflameZ]

I can see why having a guilty conscience would affect Dube’s mental health. With that said, it seems like that excuse is all too convenient given he’s been fine until he knew he was about to get caught. Those are my assumptions anyways.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think they were trying to do that because it would be profoundly stupid. IF they knew what was coming, which they probably did, they would know people would make the link.
I strongly suspect they felt they had to word it the way they did. Which doesn't mean ultimately they made the right call. But I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to mislead.

I doubt they meant malice... still a dumb decision.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by driveway

If it comes to light that anyone on the Flames advised Dube to cite mental health issues as his reason to step away, while knowing his struggles were stemming from facing these charges, I would like to see that person, as well as their direct superior in the organization, fired.

I've been a fan through thick and thin ever since I was a kid. But if that ever came out I'd be done with this team.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

My point was that many people, rightly or wrongly, will think that the mental health thing is associated with a person who did a bad thing. For an issue that already has a number of negative connotations it seemed unnecessary. I think it is the first time that the Flames have ever said a player had a mental health issue as well. It just is not ideal, should have probably just given him some time off and made him a healthy scratch and then let the rest of it play out (IMO). Telling the public why a player is not playing is not exactly what the NHL ever does, to do so is a special event.

Call it what you want, but it's gross to exploit a mental health program because of your deplorable actions and fear for your future.

Dube may very well be having a mental health issue now, but it is not the reason for his leave. His leave is to answer for his alleged and highly likely crime and shouldn't be hidden behind something like the team saying he is under care and needs privacy.