[News] Darryl Sutter out as Head Coach. Maloney presser at 11:30 AM MT

[JohnnyB]

If The Greatest Generation were around today, would they still be great, or just mid?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Personally, I'm really interested to see what happens when the Millenial/GenZ group gets to the point where they own and manage businesses and the young employees start dictating to them how they should run their operations when THEIR money is on the line.

Life looks a LOT different when the shoe is on the other foot, folks.

(And yes, I agree, a grouchy boss is not a great model. OTOH, when one signs a contract and takes a position that pays real money, the expectation is that you - as an individual - will fulfill your part of the contract.

"OK Boomer" me if you want. I'll wait until it's your turn. I've had money on the line in businesses for decades.)

It's about the lens and approach though. I don't think broadly speaking that transactional leadership really is all that effective. It should really be situational because folks are going to respond different to diffrent approaches, but the managers job is to do what they need to do to support the team to achieve, and thus reach the organizations desired outcomes. You need to invite staff in, have a conversation, coach, explain, discuss. Autocratic leadership just isn't as effective globally. It can break anyones give a #### meter.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Mentioned this earlier, but the fact of the matter is the NHL workforce is comprised of players from a generation with a very different perspective to that of most of the men coaching and managing these resources. The players are the ones who produce results so it is crucial for management to adjust to the new workforce norm. This is playing out in industries across the continent and many are struggling with the cultural change. Those that evolve and adapt to the new workforce will find greater success. Those who fight this and try to maintain a standard that does not align with the workforce will struggle and probably fail. I hope the Flames acknowledge this shift and brings in a GM and coaching staff that understand the change in approach.

Totally agree.

My Department is going through it

[Icantwhisper]

Good coaches and leaders inspire you to work hard and make you want to go to work everyday.
Coaches that manage through fear and intimidation will only ensure you work hard enough to not get in crap.
When players are happy going to the rink everyday you'll see a lot better performance.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Personally, I'm really interested to see what happens when the Millenial/GenZ group gets to the point where they own and manage businesses and the young employees start dictating to them how they should run their operations when THEIR money is on the line.

Life looks a LOT different when the shoe is on the other foot, folks.

(And yes, I agree, a grouchy boss is not a great model. OTOH, when one signs a contract and takes a position that pays real money, the expectation is that you - as an individual - will fulfill your part of the contract.

"OK Boomer" me if you want. I'll wait until it's your turn. I've had money on the line in businesses for decades.)

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Mentioned this earlier, but the fact of the matter is the NHL workforce is comprised of players from a generation with a very different perspective to that of most of the men coaching and managing these resources. The players are the ones who produce results so it is crucial for management to adjust to the new workforce norm. This is playing out in industries across the continent and many are struggling with the cultural change. Those that evolve and adapt to the new workforce will find greater success. Those who fight this and try to maintain a standard that does not align with the workforce will struggle and probably fail. I hope the Flames acknowledge this shift and brings in a GM and coaching staff that understand the change in approach.

These (conflicting) posts are both accurate, relevant, and well stated. If things were always easy, we'd all be killing it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Totally agree.

My Department is going through it

My workplace also. COVID and work from home accelerated this.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Mentioned this earlier, but the fact of the matter is the NHL workforce is comprised of players from a generation with a very different perspective to that of most of the men coaching and managing these resources. The players are the ones who produce results so it is crucial for management to adjust to the new workforce norm. This is playing out in industries across the continent and many are struggling with the cultural change. Those that evolve and adapt to the new workforce will find greater success. Those who fight this and try to maintain a standard that does not align with the workforce will struggle and probably fail. I hope the Flames acknowledge this shift and brings in a GM and coaching staff that understand the change in approach.

All true. However.

Businesses can adapt only so much, and only so fast. eg. WFH is wonderful...for employees. WFH also means that corporate culture is MUCH more difficult to maintain and to create a cohesive unit where the inmates are NOT running the asylum. Hockey is likely no different. If the players leave the rink and then go "somewhere" and spend all their time bitching about how they're being mistreated, while making millions, well...you don't get a very successful operation, do you?

In ordinary businesses, when people fail to meet the cultural expectation of an org they get terminated...and usually are paid to leave. The org finds new people that meet (hopefully) their expectations and desires. That doesn't exist in hockey with guaranteed contracts and that is one root of potential issues for all teams, not just the Flames.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess my gut through the Friedman and Seravelli comments is that there are 1-3 (maybe one) players that sort of quit on the team because of Sutter, and some of the other players are concerned with Sutter gone that said player(s) have the fortitude going forward.

Pure speculation, but it would seem Kadri would be on that list no? We heard about rumblings, and then we saw him essentially quitting.

The snowflake stuff is over the top and silly, but there isn't a clean sweep of problems with Sutter gone.

I didn't understand Friedman's comments like this. I felt it was about playing style and systems. A collection of players believed things weren't working with Sutter and were upset with his "my way or the highway approach." However, instead of putting up with it, they dug their heels in as well to some extent and wouldn't meet Sutter even halfway. And these same players demanded Sutter be fired or they didn't want to come back.

I think other players realized that situation where a few core players were tuning out the coach was toxic for the team. And they didn't want another season where the coach and players weren't on the same page. There was agreement that "sure, fire Sutter, that's fine. He's too stuborn. But these players who wouldn't meet the coach half-way, they have to try harder with the next coach. Some of the fault is with them".

I don't think it was about quitting on the team so much as it was about tuning out the coach and his system.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess my gut through the Friedman and Seravelli comments is that there are 1-3 (maybe one) players that sort of quit on the team because of Sutter, and some of the other players are concerned with Sutter gone that said player(s) have the fortitude going forward.

Pure speculation, but it would seem Kadri would be on that list no? We heard about rumblings, and then we saw him essentially quitting.

The snowflake stuff is over the top and silly, but there isn't a clean sweep of problems with Sutter gone.

yeah, I gotta agree, things could get a bit uglier yet. Especially if they don't get off to a good start next year.
I'm hoping for things to settle a bit, but, it really is all on the players now

[FlamesAddiction]

On one of the After Burner episodes recently, it was suggested that Sutter also had his supporters in the room and the rift wasn't just between Sutter and some players, but between players who wanted to do things Sutter's way and those who didn't, and it was causing locker room friction. I could definitely see that, and I am not sure that getting rid of Sutter fixes that rift.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

If The Greatest Generation were around today, would they still be great, or just mid?

Just like we have to do adjusted goals for the classic NHL, we need to do adjusted greatness for the greatest generation.

Yeah they accomplished some good things but a lot of spent their lives clocking into their factory job after coming back from the war and greatness is attributed to them being happy with that and working hard. They then raised the the generation of boomers that have their fair share of criticism for the current state of affairs.

[traptor]

Worried Love has been proped up by wolf. When I watch the wranglers they look okay but Wolf has done ALOT of heavy lifting for that team.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

On one of the After Burner episodes recently, it was suggested that Sutter also had his supporters in the room and the rift wasn't just between Sutter and some players, but between players who wanted to do things Sutter's way and those who didn't, and it was causing locker room friction. I could definitely see that, and I am not sure that getting rid of Sutter fixes that rift.

Lucic and Lewis are gone. I think that solves most of that problem.
It also moves the leadership into the hands of those that the team has handed the biggest contracts to.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

On one of the After Burner episodes recently, it was suggested that Sutter also had his supporters in the room and the rift wasn't just between Sutter and some players, but between players who wanted to do things Sutter's way and those who didn't, and it was causing locker room friction. I could definitely see that, and I am not sure that getting rid of Sutter fixes that rift.

I think getting rid of Sutter was the necessary first step.

Now we will see what the room looks like going forward. And the next step is to remove the players that continue to be a problem, if there is still a problem.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Lucic and Lewis are gone. I think that solves most of that problem.
It also moves the leadership into the hands of those that the team has handed the biggest contracts to.

I think Z and Toffoli (maybe more so Toffoli) were Sutter guys fwiw


Either way you can start to paint a picture of why folks talked about Tre being a 'firefighter' this year.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I think Z and Toffoli (maybe more so Toffoli) were Sutter guys fwiw

Z has said that much in various western and also Russian media. Darryl is the first coach that really told him exactly what he needed to do to have success.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

yeah, I gotta agree, things could get a bit uglier yet. Especially if they don't get off to a good start next year.
I'm hoping for things to settle a bit, but, it really is all on the players now

100%

It is going to get ugly if things dont work next year because even generals have to earn their stripes. And the the new stars just had an abysmal season and clashed with the coach have earned exactly zero stripes with a lot of their teammates. If Huby and Kadri deliver another season like we just saw, it's going to be a ####ing embarrassment as we watch this franchise implode as other players like Lindholm and Backlund jump ship.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

I think Z and Toffoli (maybe more so Toffoli) were Sutter guys fwiw


Either way you can start to paint a picture of why folks talked about Tre being a 'firefighter' this year.

I can see that, but both of them are now on their final year.
I see the louder voices becoming Hubs, Kadri, Coleman, Ras, Weegs and probably Markstrom.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

On one of the After Burner episodes recently, it was suggested that Sutter also had his supporters in the room and the rift wasn't just between Sutter and some players, but between players who wanted to do things Sutter's way and those who didn't, and it was causing locker room friction. I could definitely see that, and I am not sure that getting rid of Sutter fixes that rift.

New coach gives them all the chance to get on the same page again.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

100%

It is going to get ugly if things dont work next year because even generals have to earn their stripes. And the the new stars just had an abysmal season and clashed with the coach have earned exactly zero stripes with a lot of their teammates. If Huby and Kadri deliver another season like we just saw, it's going to be a ####ing embarrassment as we watch this franchise implode as other players like Lindholm and Backlund jump ship.

Based on what Pat et al have said it's not just Jonthan and Nazim who had issues with Darryl. Backlund allegedly expressed a desire to move the last two summers. I'm sure Huberdeau and Kadri are factors for sure, but I don't think it's fair to pin it all on them.