Sutter is the problem

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What I find funny is that nobody here can dispute that Darryl is a my way or the highway guy, doesn't collaborate, doesn't communicate well, makes sarcastic quips, etc. Basically the exact opposite of what most here would consider an ideal boss to work for in their personal career yet players are somehow soft for feeling exactly the same as we would if placed their situation. This is a job for the players at the end of the day and when they wake up in the morning they should feel good about going to work and good about their working relationship with their boss and what's going on in their workplace. We can quit our jobs if we don't like working for our boss but these players are under contract so they just can't up and quit so I have absolutely no issue here as I believe it's just more than Huberdeau and Kadri as it's a group of players just like it was with Hartley.

Doesn't communicate well? You have no basis for this drastic 180 flip. He's not coaching the media, which is the only public place to judge unless you're actually around team operations. There's a wide open field where players being bad listeners that aren't absorbing and adopting what is being clearly communicated is the situation.

Just a lot of assumptions being made because the team ingredients thrown together haven't been good.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You can only push so hard until people turn on you that is the issue here.

Its all about results and he is pushing extra hard on these guys and they are not being rewarded. I don't see a team quitting in the effort department, and they are listening to him and playing his game but he keeps pushing and his tactics are not working.

If you are not being rewarded for all the yelling and screaming and following the game plan what do you expect to happen?

Sutters issue is he is coaching like its 2010 and a roster like the LA Kings. What needed to realize is its 2022 and the game and roster are much different.

He was a top coach, but is inability to evolve and modernize his ways and tactics make him a terrible coach to be around right now.

When you get around to it can we get a post on Sutter? I'd like to know your thoughts on the man.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by dammage79

...

If you cannot communicate properly with the youth of today, it doesn't matter what system you try to.implement or get the players to buy in, it simply does not matter.

...

Is communicating with the youth of today really relevant on the Flames though? Do the Flames have youth?

Honestly though, if Sutter would get on Tik Tok I would follow him.

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You can only push so hard until people turn on you that is the issue here.

Its all about results and he is pushing extra hard on these guys and they are not being rewarded. I don't see a team quitting in the effort department, and they are listening to him and playing his game but he keeps pushing and his tactics are not working.

If you are not being rewarded for all the yelling and screaming and following the game plan what do you expect to happen?

Sutters issue is he is coaching like its 2010 and a roster like the LA Kings. What needed to realize is its 2022 and the game and roster are much different.

He was a top coach, but is inability to evolve and modernize his ways and tactics make him a terrible coach to be around right now.

Honest question. What coach would look good in front of Markstroms performance this year? Or Vladar?

.889 and .896

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

You can only push so hard until people turn on you that is the issue here.

Its all about results and he is pushing extra hard on these guys and they are not being rewarded. I don't see a team quitting in the effort department, and they are listening to him and playing his game but he keeps pushing and his tactics are not working.

If you are not being rewarded for all the yelling and screaming and following the game plan what do you expect to happen?

Sutters issue is he is coaching like its 2010 and a roster like the LA Kings. What needed to realize is its 2022 and the game and roster are much different.

He was a top coach, but is inability to evolve and modernize his ways and tactics make him a terrible coach to be around right now.

You've seen this yelling and screaming?

[Phil Russell]

Agreed that advanced stats are indicative of good performance. But you can put me in the there are more important factors affecting performance than shot metrics and the 22-23 Flame's are the case study that a system of play can produce good advanced stats and be bad. But it's part of a suite of problems that includes a bad system of play (or let's say bad for this group), bad player performance, and bad chemistry/culture. I blame Sutter for a lot of this, not all of it, but he's the central problem and the problem that is most fixable.

[just_tim]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Is communicating with the youth of today really relevant on the Flames though? Do the Flames have youth?

Honestly though, if Sutter would get on Tik Tok I would follow him.

Even the grizzled vets are mid-range Millennials.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I get What Maher is trying to say. But He's mindframe is the same as the rest of the old guard. TBH I may not entirely agree with it but it doesn't make the fact any less true that it's a different ballgame today compared to even pre 2010.

If you cannot communicate properly with the youth of today, it doesn't matter what system you try to.implement or get the players to buy in, it simply does not matter.

Is Sutter a great coach? One of the greatest. No dispute.

Does he have a shelf life ? 100 percent. And It's a short one.

You look at his deployment tactics this year and you cannot help but wonder if he's really lost the touch. He has to be better with his players.

I agree with what you're saying but Huberdeau and Kadri aren't today's youth, they are veteran players. If they have already soured on Sutter and it's not even a year in, it says a lot more about them then Sutter.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

You've seen this yelling and screaming?

Listen to Johnny talk about him last season, said he is mad all the time and sometimes left the locker to break things.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Honest question. What coach would look good in front of Markstroms performance this year? Or Vladar?

.889 and .896

Yeah, the difference from last year to this year is painfully obvious. It's Markstrom sucking, and replacing the team's two big performers with guys who just haven't performed.

What's the difference between being a bubble team and a division champ?

Two star players and a star goalie.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Honest question. What coach would look good in front of Markstroms performance this year? Or Vladar?

.889 and .896

Yeah the goalie have not been good, but that goes back to the point Cali Flames Fan made he has made zero adjustments all season.

Man on man coverage has led to plenty of costly breakdowns and it is not working for this team consistently.

[Yeah_Baby]

For a message board populated by generally speaking young middle-aged posters on the lower end of the board demographic, I can't help but point out the differences in approaches and perspectives is sort of breaking along generational lines.

10 years ago you'd have management and leadership books from 20 or 15 years ago being updated or released with new material about leading Millennials in the work force. As Millennials enter middle age, and within the corporate world join Gen X in leadership roles, I do think we're ripe for a further extension of the broadening changes in approach.

12 years ago I was in a management role, that I probably wasn't prepared for, and the folks I reported to pointed out how my approach was so much older than my years. Which they appreciated, but I had to learn to build more intentional relationships with my staff, who were closer to me in age. Fast forward to now, in a new industry that I've been in 8 years, and my approach is a further evolution of what I was learning back then, except I find it easier for me to advocate for change and am confident in my approach being adopted by leadership than ever before. The difference being my manager is my age, and our (interim) director is a Gen Xer following the Boomer that retired.

Anyway, only tangentially on topic. But I don't think folks saying Sutter isn't a coach in the modern Zeitgeist are saying he's garbage. He's not. He's a HOF. Its just things change. And good leaders/managers recognize that an adapt.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by just_tim

Even the grizzled vets are mid-range Millennials.

We talk about Lewis like he has one foot in the grave and he's my age.
I graduated in 2004.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Listen to Johnny talk about him last season, said he is mad all the time and sometimes left the locker to break things.

Link?

[Burning Beard]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah the goalie have not been good, but that goes back to the point Cali Flames Fan made he has made zero adjustments all season.

Man on man coverage has led to plenty of costly breakdowns and it is not working for this team consistently.

I'm not buying that an adjustment could be made to help Markstrom stop all those innocent looking shots. I get people are mad at the season and targeting the coaching so I feel they are selectively forgetting how bad and deflating many of the goals were this season.

You put a Mike Smith in net this year and this is a playoff team. And I am not a fan of Smith at all!

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'm not buying that an adjustment could be made to help Markstrom stop all those innocent looking shots. I get people are mad at the season and targeting the coaching so I feel they are selectively forgetting how bad and deflating many of the goals were this season.

You put a Mike Smith in net this year and this is a playoff team. And I am not a fan of Smith at all!

This just illustrates how difficult this summer will be for the Flames GM. If settling the coach thing is at the top of the list, then figuring out what to do with the goaltending situation is right behind it as I'm don't know if bringing both goaltenders back and hoping for them to turn things around is an option after what we have seen this season.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah the goalie have not been good, but that goes back to the point Cali Flames Fan made he has made zero adjustments all season.

Man on man coverage has led to plenty of costly breakdowns and it is not working for this team consistently.

When you have the 3rd best xSCA60, the 5th best HDCA60 and the 2nd best xGA60 and you're goaltending is the third worst ... it's goaltending.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He had mutual respect for Keenan and Ron Wilson and booted them.

No reason why Sutter wouldn't get canned for player treatment ice time bench management not working on 3v3.

If he was showing up management like this thr players would be the least of his concern.

I am surprised you used Wilson as an example, if you think back a lot of people were upset that Burke was too loyal to Wilson and initially wouldn't fire him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

I'm not buying that an adjustment could be made to help Markstrom stop all those innocent looking shots. I get people are mad at the season and targeting the coaching so I feel they are selectively forgetting how bad and deflating many of the goals were this season.

You put a Mike Smith in net this year and this is a playoff team. And I am not a fan of Smith at all!

Smith let a lot more soul crushing goals in his last year ion Calgary than Markstrom has this year. Those weak 5 hole goals….

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

I am surprised you used Wilson as an example, if you think back a lot of people were upset that Burke was too loyal to Wilson and initially wouldn't fire him.

Thats because they had a off ice relationship being a godfather to one of their children?

I don't think Burke has any relationship with Sutter.

He also said in his book they fired Hartley because he was too hard on the players.

It would be interesting to see the two together as they are two of the bigger personalities the NHL has.