Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

How stupid do you have to be to write this post while our premier, the leader of the other party, is apologizing for the third time this month for publicly insulting a large swath of people while in office? Seriously man, get your head checked.

How stupid do you have to be to claim to want the NDP to win, hear about a person who finds people calling UCP voters morons affects his decision making and then double down on calling them idiots.

It’s like you want to have Smith win so you can say you voted for Kotos.

[PsYcNeT]

The onus is always on the left to maintain some illusion of "decorum".

Meanwhile, backpats, cigars and brandy are handed out when a sitting minister screams at a physician in his driveway.

[puffnstuff]

Albertans have always seemed to be very 'i gotta vote for who is going to win'

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GGG

How stupid do you have to be to claim to want the NDP to win, hear about a person who finds people calling UCP voters morons affects his decision making and then double down on calling them idiots.

It’s like you want to have Smith win so you can say you voted for Kotos.

It's because people that say things like that aren't doing it in good faith.

If you follow how right wing conservatives go, the Trumps, Smiths, and so forth, they spew the most vile rhetoric I've ever heard. From insulting disabled veterans, ripping on stage 4 cancer patients, saying that anyone that got vaccinated are facist followers, the rhetoric doesn't stop.

If you are clutching pearls over a few people on a forum calling out what those leaders are saying, it's evident that there is not a good faith discussion when put in the larger context of what the actual leaders are saying. You're just like a Yoho, or a Joe Rogan who are always "just asking questions."

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The onus is always on the left to maintain some illusion of "decorum".

Meanwhile, backpats, cigars and brandy are handed out when a sitting minister screams at a physician in his driveway.

On the other hand, putting up an NDP sign keeps unwanted Shandros off your driveway.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The onus is always on the left to maintain some illusion of "decorum".

Meanwhile, backpats, cigars and brandy are handed out when a sitting minister screams at a physician in his driveway.

Naw, it’s not about Onus or decorum it’s about winning.

The left (if we decide to treat it monolithically) has a very be perfect or your out model whereas the right is agree with these 3 tenants in whatever way you want and your in. For an inclusive political stance it trips over itself.

[Fuzz]

I think we can give EE enough credit that he isn't so weak as to allow us calling a duck a duck enough to modify how he votes. I get that maybe some people are so soft as to vote out of spite for what some people on a forum say, but the fact is those people were never going to change their votes. Ones smart enough to consider it aren't so weak minded as to allow "moron" to weigh into the myriad of factors one should look at when voting for 4 years of government.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Regorium

It's because people that say things like that aren't doing it in good faith.

If you follow how right wing conservatives go, the Trumps, Smiths, and so forth, they spew the most vile rhetoric I've ever heard. From insulting disabled veterans, ripping on stage 4 cancer patients, saying that anyone that got vaccinated are facist followers, the rhetoric doesn't stop.

If you are clutching pearls over a few people on a forum calling out what those leaders are saying, it's evident that there is not a good faith discussion when put in the larger context of what the actual leaders are saying. You're just like a Yoho, or a Joe Rogan who are always "just asking questions."

None of those people are voters you are trying to convince not to vote for Smith. Here is an experiment for you. Find the most liberal UCP voters you know. Go talk to them and call one of them a Moron for voting the UCP and have a real conversation with the other and report back.

No one is pearl clutching over people calling Smith a Moron it’s when you call a group of individuals who you have never met and have no knowledge over their motivations morons because one aspect of their behaviour is likely against their self interest that you stop benefitting your cause.

Calgary is the home of the mythical Socially Liberal Fiscal conservative. The polling shows that. Calling them morons doesn’t help you win them over.

What do you propose is the best way to convince an undecided but historically UCP voter to vote NDP?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by GGG

Naw, it’s not about Onus or decorum it’s about winning.

The left (if we decide to treat it monolithically) has a very be perfect or your out model whereas the right is agree with these 3 tenants in whatever way you want and your in. For an inclusive political stance it trips over itself.

Infighting and purity testing exists on both sides.

There's a common meme you see right-wing psyops deploy where a left of centre person is shown (over time) being "left behind" as the left moves further along it's one political plane and the centre-left person is more closely aligned with the right.

This of course portrays the Overton Window as only moving in one direction, and is a somewhat pervasive idea amongst Centrists in general.

The left is, unequivocally, more annoying than the monolithic right. Simply put, while purity testing exists on both sides, leftists will continue to be vocal about it even when they are not in power. For the purposes of this discussion, it's reasonable to note that the status of the Right in the US has a significant effect on the rhetoric in Canada.

Centrists generally feel "left behind" because the Left owns their controversial opinions, while the Right often deflects away from them or minimizes them (whether this is by design or due to cognitive dissonance, you be the judge).

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GGG

How stupid do you have to be to claim to want the NDP to win, hear about a person who finds people calling UCP voters morons affects his decision making and then double down on calling them idiots.

It’s like you want to have Smith win so you can say you voted for Kotos.

I didn't make any claim over who I wanted to win- perhaps you should endeavor to learn to read one of these days. It will do well to help with your anger.

I always vote Kang. Plebian.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by GGG

None of those people are voters you are trying to convince not to vote for Smith. Here is an experiment for you. Find the most liberal UCP voters you know. Go talk to them and call one of them a Moron for voting the UCP and have a real conversation with the other and report back.

No one is pearl clutching over people calling Smith a Moron it’s when you call a group of individuals who you have never met and have no knowledge over their motivations morons because one aspect of their behaviour is likely against their self interest that you stop benefitting your cause.

Calgary is the home of the mythical Socially Liberal Fiscal conservative. The polling shows that. Calling them morons doesn’t help you win them over.

What do you propose is the best way to convince an undecided but historically UCP voter to vote NDP?

The most liberal UCP voters I know have all independently made the decision to vote NDP this time around. The rest are not people that can be convinced.

[Monahammer]

FTR I called my own father a moron for intending to vote UCP again. I have convinced him to not vote UCP since I did that. My one anecdote disproves all of the ridiculous anecdotes contained herein that calling someone a moron for being a moron prevents said person from not being a moron.

[Hemi-Cuda]

I wonder how many of those conservatives whining about NDP voters being "mean" are the same ones that love to call liberals snowflakes at every opportunity...

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

I wonder how many of those conservatives whining about NDP voters being "mean" are the same ones that love to call liberals snowflakes at every opportunity...

I know of at least 1

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...834387?cmp=rss


Really good article on who is now running the UCP. From the leader:
Still want to vote for these people? They have lost their minds. And they are running the UCP.

Just to point something out for those that don't read the article. Take Back Alberta is a registered Third Party Advertiser and not "running" the UCP. The article also states that Danielle Smith went to the this groups leaders wedding and this particular third party takes credit for having Kenney removed. If you go to Elections Alberta, you'll see a list of Third Party Advertisers. There's some doozies in there very similar to this one.

In a lot of cases, these third party advertisers are definitely fringe, and definitely groups you don't want to have any kind of clout in a governing body.

I agree with the intent of the OP in highlighting some of the fringe groups who support UCP (I couldn't really see any groups comparable supporting the NDP), but didn't think it was completely accurate to say they are running the UCP.

Traditional UCP voters should be aware UCP is the only party seemingly willing to listen to, communicate with, some would say pander to, these groups who don't represent the vast majority of Albertan or Canadian values. Very loud minority. But, they will feel empowered if the only party who supports them forms our next government. My thoughts anyway.

[Major Major]

So, just so I'm keeping up with the "undecideds" and so I know how to approach them. Danielle Smith has been talking publicly for a long time now. There. There it is. She has been talking. If you are sill undecided, I'm supposed to act like you are some smart person? LISTEN TO HER TALK. Still undecided. No, you are not an idiot, just undecided. You should be proud. We're all proud. Oh, a random person on the internet might just push you over the edge to finally decide to vote cons for the 10th time in a row. YOU DID THIS! Good grief. Listen to her talk. Then decide who you are "aligned" with. Have you felt compelled to apologize to Ukranian, Indigenous and the Jewish people in the last 3 months? I'll do it guys, I'll align with her. And it will be YOUR FAULT.

LISTEN TO HER TALK.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Just to point something out for those that don't read the article. Take Back Alberta is a registered Third Party Advertiser and not "running" the UCP. The article also states that Danielle Smith went to the this groups leaders wedding and this particular third party takes credit for having Kenney removed. If you go to Elections Alberta, you'll see a list of Third Party Advertisers. There's some doozies in there very similar to this one.

In a lot of cases, these third party advertisers are definitely fringe, and definitely groups you don't want to have any kind of clout in a governing body.

I agree with the intent of the OP in highlighting some of the fringe groups who support UCP (I couldn't really see any groups comparable supporting the NDP), but didn't think it was completely accurate to say they are running the UCP.

Traditional UCP voters should be aware UCP is the only party seemingly willing to listen to, communicate with, some would say pander to, these groups who don't represent the vast majority of Albertan or Canadian values. Very loud minority. But, they will feel empowered if the only party who supports them forms our next government. My thoughts anyway.

They helped get rid of Kenney, and took over the leadership vote to put Smith in power. They've taken over 50% of the riding associations.

As Mount Royal University political science professor Duane Bratt told CTV, “They really are the power behind the throne of the UCP… Instead of trying to start a third party, they are taking over from within.”

https://www.nationalobserver.com/202...ervative-party


I think it's foolish to not really look at what is going on here. A vote for the UCP is no longer a Conservative vote, it is a vote for an extreme right wing view of reality.

[Ozy_Flame]

With all of these damaging videos and decisions and gaffs coming out about Danielle Smith - and moreso in the last few weeks - I can't imagine how much damage her and the UCP are doing to Alberta's reputation right now.

Serious, unmitigated damage.

And if at any point during an election your defense is "I'm a friend of the Jewish people" because you have to defend against Hitler comments you wantonly made, you've lost the plot and the mandate to govern. And you should realize the boat you're sinking in is bringing 4M+ citizens down with you.

And the worst part is NONE of her cabinet/caucus is calling her out or condemning her words. Just placating, deflecting, and speaking in vague tones. Spineless cowards, because all they care about is positions of power.

To Danielle Smith, Albertans are Hitler followers. To TBA, Albertans are anti-human. And these two are working hand-in-hand and smiling all the while doing it.

Just an unmitigated, disastrous Premier and party doing considerable harm to the province. Absolute clown show.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Danielle Smith is so bad I'm going to have to vote for... shudder... Druh Farrell.

I mean... do I have to? Can I just be conveniently kidnapped by pirates on election day instead?

[Looch City]

I am also going to vote for UCP because of the liberal WOKE media (who seem to have infiltrated CP) constantly berating me on my god given CHOICES!