France bans the burqa

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I hope your list includes the Bible, Crosses/Crucifixes, Kippahs, Yarmulkes and Rosaries. If you ban one religous item, you need to ban them all.

It's sickening how many people (not directed at the OP, I'm using people in the general sense) are quick to want religious items of a Eastern Culture banned, but don't see their own religious items which are openly on display as being stupid to people, even those of their own country.

I'm an atheist, I don't want to see your damn religious symbol here or anywhere and its not dependant on which deity you choose to worship or what country you were born in.

The thing is a Burka is NOT a religious item. It is a cultural remnant.

Just like the Christmas tree.

[FlamesAddiction]

For what it's worth, even Bosnia (including the Muslim-Croat federation administrative areas) and Kosovo (majority muslims) have restrictions on types of head dresses that fully conceal someone's appearance in certain public areas.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by HOZ

The thing is a Burka is NOT a religious item. It is a cultural remnant.

Just like the Christmas tree.

Yes this is it exactly.

Then again, most artifacts of all major modern religions are also cultural remnants. There are no rosary beads or crucifixes in the Bible.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Codes

I wasn't trying to be insensitive. If I have incorrectly labelled groups, I apologize.

I understand you weren't trying to be insensitive and appreciate that, just a real pet peeve of mine when people mix up Sikhs who (sometimes) where turbans and Muslims.
Completely different religions, and very few Muslim cultures actually wear any type of turban. 99.9% of men you see in turbans here in Canada are Sikh, not Muslim.

All I intended to say was that I think the argument revolved around wearing turbans instead of motorcycle helmets.

My point was that all heads bust open equally well!

For the record, I come from a Sikh family and completely agree on the bike helmet issue. Everyone should have to wear one, as it's a safety issue and it trumps religion.

[HeartsOfFire]

@Drury18 - Indeed, according to scripture, health had nothing to do with circumsision, or pork. It has everything to do with that covenant with God. But the question still remains: 'Lord, why exactly does cutting skin off the tip of my penis forge that covenant between us?' But that is never explained, to my knowledge. No act is ever performed without a reason. Even if that reason is a simple one like 'because i wanted to.' But some reasons don't make sense, or are just too vague to be comprehended fully.

I don't give these sorts of things much thought on an everyday basis, but I'm starting to learn about Ancient Alien theories, and the written scriptures that Man has formed into some of our oldest religions, may actually be encounters with advanced civilizations. civilizations so advanced that they have mastered the art of space travel and marvelled us with technology that back in the days of early man would be considered magic. Granted, all the information I know of these theories comes from 10 hours of documentaruies and I wouldn't dare to devote my beliefs entirely to the theory, but it's fascinating to consider.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

I don't give these sorts of things much thought on an everyday basis, but I'm starting to learn about Ancient Alien theories, and the written scriptures that Man has formed into some of our oldest religions, may actually be encounters with advanced civilizations. civilizations so advanced that they have mastered the art of space travel and marvelled us with technology that back in the days of early man would be considered magic. Granted, all the information I know of these theories comes from 10 hours of documentaruies and I wouldn't dare to devote my beliefs entirely to the theory, but it's fascinating to consider.

Jesus was totally from Krypton.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This has nothing to do with OUR cultural identity. Please explain where you are inferencing that and what are you talking about because I don't get your point. This is not a discusson about Canada. Our young country is built on immigration and our system works on majority rule with minority rights and I am pretty sure a burqa ban wouldn't ever fly here.

France and other European countries are hundreds of years older than Canada and existed for a large part of their history as a homogeneous culture. I feel they have a right to try to preserve something of their cultural heritage/image or impose a ban on something that they feel is a security issue.

In, at least, the last few decades, France and many other European countries have stared to become 'lands of immigrants'. The immigration is needed and recent immigrants have helped build/maintain these countries. In doing so they have become a part of these countries' fabric and culture, which is evolving. While understandably these countries may want to preserve some of their heritage, they cannot deny the immigrants the right to express their religion. You can make them speak your language and observe your national holidays but denying them the ability to hold their cultural beliefs, which as discussed above have started to merge with the historical culture of the countries, is wrong and rather hypocritical. You cannot want these people to come but ask them to leave their baggage at home.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I've always agreed with the position that immigrants in a foreign country should try their best to adapt to the culture of the country they are living in and not force their own practices upon that country.

They are not forcing local women to wear burqas are they? They are simply bringing their culture with them.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I understand you weren't trying to be insensitive and appreciate that, just a real pet peeve of mine when people mix up Sikhs who (sometimes) where turbans and Muslims.
Completely different religions, and very few Muslim cultures actually wear any type of turban. 99.9% of men you see in turbans here in Canada are Sikh, not Muslim.

For the record, I come from a Sikh family and completely agree on the bike helmet issue. Everyone should have to wear one, as it's a safety issue and it trumps religion.

That is a real pet peeve of mine too.

Whenever somebody lumps muslims and sikhs in the same pile, because they dont know any better.
Especially when they say they are all the same as if they dont know they have been fighting each other for ages.

I always just back out of the discussion as it obvious they have no idea what they are talking about.

[VladtheImpaler]

Well, it's back to ordering Freedom Fries at McDonald's again...

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Drury18

I've heard similar and it probably has alot of merit as your reasonings are completely legitimate, but when taken at face value reading the scripture that accompanies the reasoning to do it, it doesn't state the health benefits. Just a covenant with the Jewish God and those who do not, are not will be cut off from him and his people. So face value is mutiliate yourself so you can be part of this religion or you get nothing. It's not much different (and even much less painful and permanant) then the Muslim religion requesting women wear a burqa.

Well muslims also get circumcisions.

In addition circumcisions substantially decrease the odds of STD infection. So much so that the WHO and the CDC have both more or less recommended that everyone in Africa get one:

http://www.who.int/hiv/mediacentre/M...dations_en.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm

[SebC]

I disagree with the prime directive. If your culture or religion sucks, intervention may be warranted.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by blankall

In addition circumcisions substantially decrease the odds of STD infection.

Was this a known fact when the original covenant was made?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by blankall

Well muslims also get circumcisions.

In addition circumcisions substantially decrease the odds of STD infection. So much so that the WHO and the CDC have both more or less recommended that everyone in Africa get one:

http://www.who.int/hiv/mediacentre/M...dations_en.pdf

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/fac...rcumcision.htm

Yes in AIDS ravaged africa where condoms have been made out to be dangerous and useless by religious groups.

In modern healthy society circumcision belongs in the history books, the only argument I hear from people who still do it not for religious reasons is that "it looks better."

Sorry but you shouldn't decide that for your boy, let him decide it when he grows up.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Not sure where you are getting your information from. If you want I can give you a couple of websites that show the complete opposite.

I see no problem with religious clothing until it affects my safety. Wearing a face covering affects my safety (airports etc).

Well France certainly is very non religious, atheistic/agnostic/dont care... As for the most non religious countries you have many of them in Europe, specifically Scandinavia in Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and nearby Netherlands.

Many of the complaints I hear about the secularized EU countries is that they need a Christian rebirth to counter the Muslim force growing there.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by SebC

I disagree with the prime directive. If your culture or religion sucks, intervention may be warranted.

"Its not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival." - Admiral William Adama.

A society that thinks the actions taken in the article attached probably isn't worth saving.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/world.../15355141.html


Cowperson

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Addick

In, at least, the last few decades, France and many other European countries have stared to become 'lands of immigrants'. The immigration is needed and recent immigrants have helped build/maintain these countries. In doing so they have become a part of these countries' fabric and culture, which is evolving. While understandably these countries may want to preserve some of their heritage, they cannot deny the immigrants the right to express their religion. You can make them speak your language and observe your national holidays but denying them the ability to hold their cultural beliefs, which as discussed above have started to merge with the historical culture of the countries, is wrong and rather hypocritical. You cannot want these people to come but ask them to leave their baggage at home.

They are not forcing local women to wear burqas are they? They are simply bringing their culture with them.

No issue...except as I stated on the first post of this page...there is no requirement in the Qur'an for women to wear Burqa's. So are they expressing their religion or that of a despotic cleric?

[North East Goon]

Simple solution put numbers on them, like a football jersey.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

"Its not enough to survive... One has to be worthy of survival." - Admiral William Adama.

A society that thinks the actions taken in the article attached probably isn't worth saving.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/world.../15355141.html


Cowperson

Just in case no one took the time to read your link...

TEHRAN - Iranian police arrested 60 people at a party last weekend where alcohol was served and men and women mingled freely, a newspaper reported on Wednesday.
Under Iran’s Islamic laws, women must cover their hair and bodies and alcohol is banned. Men and women are not allowed to mix freely if they are not related. Penalties can include lashes, fines or imprisonment.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Just in case no one took the time to read your link...

TEHRAN - Iranian police arrested 60 people at a party last weekend where alcohol was served and men and women mingled freely, a newspaper reported on Wednesday.
Under Iran’s Islamic laws, women must cover their hair and bodies and alcohol is banned. Men and women are not allowed to mix freely if they are not related. Penalties can include lashes, fines or imprisonment.

Big reason why countries like Saudi Arabia have huge problems with inbredding and genetic disorders.

[Cheese]

Ice cream ad banned as "offensive" to Catholics


Britain's advertising watchdog has banned an Italian ice cream ad featuring a pregnant nun, saying it causes offence to Catholics. The magazine ad for ice cream maker Antonio Federici showed the nun eating a tub of ice cream, with text that read: "Immaculately conceived ... Ice cream is our religion."



First Burqa's, now ice cream advertising! Where will all this end?