Canadian DMCA to be introduced in June

[3 Justin 3]

Why does the Canadian gov't give a rats ass about the Americans. Screw them, let Canada be Canada, stop making us into the USA.

I'd write to my MP but I doubt he'd give a damn.

[Azure]

My MP got 75% of the vote last time so I doubt he gives a damn what I say. But I did my duty and complained.

[Antithesis]

Thanks Jimmy for your post. To your points about "why Canadian providers are slow to innovate (Netflix, etc)" ... again, I've always understood that this was an issue with Canada's copyright laws. If this law is necessary to bring things like Hulu to us ... then overall I'm happy. Like I said, it affects me in no negative way that I can see - right now.

As for rewarding innovation, again, not to turn this into Apple fanboi takes on the world, but if Apple is innovating enough to allow you a way to legally obtain movies, music, and TV shows, while watching them on 5 devices (that's more than anyone has mentioned specifically needing in this thread), shouldn't they be rewarded, instead of people insisting on using "legacy devices" to watch DVDs? Yes, I know you already purchased the DVD, but did we complain when we were 'forced' to move from VHS to DVD? I honestly don't remember because I never really personally owned any videocassettes so it wasn't a big deal. Hoping not to come off as Mr. High Horse again, but people seem to be complaining when the answer they seek is right in front of them!

[photon]

Apple is rewarded in the form of customers... but Apple is as much of a problem as anyone else, since you are still locked into their system as they are as vehement as the other companies about DRM and being able to lock you out of whatever it is you purchased when it suits them, or even if they have no choice. What happens if it's found out Steve Jobs is an alien and Apple products are made from the crushed bones of puppies and kittens and Apple goes under and all their DRM servers shut down? Everything purchased from them goes away too. It's happened before with companies selling digital media.

And what if you want to run Linux? Chrome OS when it comes out? Some other OS? Those OSes are capable of playing the media, but cannot because of digital locks. What if you want to change your phone or your media player or eBook reader? You can't because all your purchases are on the other locked system. What if you move to another country where the rules are different and whatever company doesn't have a presence there or support that country? Sorry, your media collection is now useless bits.

It's about being able to do whatever you want with whatever you've purchased, so I don't need to buy the same movie on Apple TV for the TV upstairs, on the PS3 for the big screen downstairs, on Microsoft for my media player, and on DVD so I can play it on the kid's DVD player when we go on a trip. And then buy it 3 more times after I change media players and get a new console (Nintendo isn't going to let you move your purchases to a new console when they release their Black Wii for example).

I don't see why it's a big deal at all to have fair dealing laws that give special provisions to break digital locks for your own personal use. Well I do see why, because then companies can't charge three, four, five times for the same piece of data.

[Jimdon]

Another Canadian politician bending over for the American government. Pathetic.

[fredr123]

What we all fail to understand is that when you buy a DVD or a streaming version of the same film on Apple TV, you're not buying the movie. You're buying a bundle of rights which in most cases include only watching the movie in prescribed ways.

It's different from buying a car or a chocolate bar or some other physical good. Ford can't (and isn't) telling you what roads you can drive on with your new Fusion. Cadburry isn't telling you you can't use that chocolate bar in the production of 'smores on the campfire.

I'm fine with this concept in theory. However, I think the rights we are purchasing are GROSSLY over-priced. There is no meeting of the minds when you assume you are purchasing the latest Taylor Swift album and are allowed to convert those songs for use on any media player you want. That's not what you're being sold.

And again, I would be fine with this if the rights you are buying are priced fairly and are priced in accordance with that model. If people knew you had to buy the same song five times for each of your five devices, the price would have to reflect that. Pennies a song would probably be reasonable. Ninety-nine cents is not.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by fredr123

What we all fail to understand is that when you buy a DVD or a streaming version of the same film on Apple TV, you're not buying the movie. You're buying a bundle of rights which in most cases include only watching the movie in prescribed ways.

It's different from buying a car or a chocolate bar or some other physical good. Ford can't (and isn't) telling you what roads you can drive on with your new Fusion. Cadburry isn't telling you you can't use that chocolate bar in the production of 'smores on the campfire.

I'm fine with this concept in theory. However, I think the rights we are purchasing are GROSSLY over-priced. There is no meeting of the minds when you assume you are purchasing the latest Taylor Swift album and are allowed to convert those songs for use on any media player you want. That's not what you're being sold.

And again, I would be fine with this if the rights you are buying are priced fairly and are priced in accordance with that model. If people knew you had to buy the same song five times for each of your five devices, the price would have to reflect that. Pennies a song would probably be reasonable. Ninety-nine cents is not.

Sure sounds good. So a fine of $20,000 for paying for and breaching the agreement (for which I have no idea about because no one tells you and was unable to read unless I buy the product) or $500 for just outright stealing it?

I know where the value is.

There is no DRM on music CDs so they can be format shifted. For digital content, $.99 is too expensive and the industry is doing all they can to increase those prices by forcing you to buy full albums or by using variable pricing.

The whole thing, including the FCC's recent decision to allow content providers to lock down your cable box and instruct it to not record first run movies and TV shows at their discretion will only serve to make people like me turn even further to the black and gray markets. This crap only hurts people like my parents and those people who pay their cable bill, buy movies etc.

[socktape]

You could use this to send a letter to your MP, PM etc.

http://www.ccer.ca/send-a-letter-to-...canadian-dmca/

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

As for rewarding innovation, again, not to turn this into Apple fanboi takes on the world, but if Apple is innovating enough to allow you a way to legally obtain movies, music, and TV shows, while watching them on 5 devices (that's more than anyone has mentioned specifically needing in this thread), shouldn't they be rewarded, instead of people insisting on using "legacy devices" to watch DVDs?

Maybe Apple can innovate enough to allow me to reformat my computer and install Windows 7 without it becoming a new "device" and eating up one of the available ones for me. I have some songs bought on iTunes in ~2004 and they're down to 1 device left from me buying new computers and changing operating systems, and it has only been on my computer and my iPod. Stupid. Also, I can't even clip some songs for ringtones on my phone, the song gets messed up when I try. Thanks Apple.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Sure sounds good. So a fine of $20,000 for paying for and breaching the agreement (for which I have no idea about because no one tells you and was unable to read unless I buy the product) or $500 for just outright stealing it?

I know where the value is.

There is no DRM on music CDs so they can be format shifted. For digital content, $.99 is too expensive and the industry is doing all they can to increase those prices by forcing you to buy full albums or by using variable pricing.

The whole thing, including the FCC's recent decision to allow content providers to lock down your cable box and instruct it to not record first run movies and TV shows at their discretion will only serve to make people like me turn even further to the black and gray markets. This crap only hurts people like my parents and those people who pay their cable bill, buy movies etc.

I'm not sure I really agree with a lot of what I said. I think I would be okay with a world where all the digital locks and DRM are allowed but access to the content is priced accordingly. Fair price, to me, in that world is expressed in pennies not dollars.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

My MP already knows he isn't getting my vote, so he don't exactly care too much.... my MP could slaughter a litter of kittens and admit to liking little girls and he'd still win in a landslide.

Sounds like you're in the same Jason Kenney ward as I am.

That man could drive drunk and plow into a bus full of school children and still win because the entire SE Calgary votes based on name recognition.

I still emailed him to say I'd never vote PC again and not only that, but I'd aggressively campaign against his party.

I'm sure no one will even read it or his staff will have a good chuckle and send me an on auto response... or my name/IP has already been added to a watch list.

I have more of an issue with the Conservative party totally reversing it's original stance on this issue than anything else.... although I shouldn't be surprised they did.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Maybe Apple can innovate enough to allow me to reformat my computer and install Windows 7 without it becoming a new "device" and eating up one of the available ones for me. I have some songs bought on iTunes in ~2004 and they're down to 1 device left from me buying new computers and changing operating systems, and it has only been on my computer and my iPod. Stupid. Also, I can't even clip some songs for ringtones on my phone, the song gets messed up when I try. Thanks Apple.

Chill...

If you have reached your 5-computer limit, then launch iTunes, click iTunes Store, and then click your iTunes user name in the top-right corner of the store window. Once you login, you should see a page with all of your account information on it. In the middle of the page, you should see how many computers are currrently authorized. When you reach your 5-computer limit, a new button will appear here called "Deauthorize All." When you click this button, and confirm, your computer limit will start over at zero.

You will then need to re-authorize the computers that you want to keep. From iTunes, go to Store > Authorize Computer.

You can do this once a year.

[JustAnotherGuy]

I say that the people who have been stealing media off the internet are the ones who have screwed everybody. It is also my impression that these same people are the ones who are crying the most about it. What is that saying? Payback is a bitch. So now you all are just getting the pay back because you have cheated the system for so long.

Yes, the system they are proposing has so many flaws but what else are they supposed to do? The industry is getting screwed by these issues.

Now, if you are not one of the whiny smelly cheating stealing downloader people my post is not about you.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Maybe Apple can innovate enough to allow me to reformat my computer and install Windows 7 without it becoming a new "device" and eating up one of the available ones for me. I have some songs bought on iTunes in ~2004 and they're down to 1 device left from me buying new computers and changing operating systems, and it has only been on my computer and my iPod. Stupid. Also, I can't even clip some songs for ringtones on my phone, the song gets messed up when I try. Thanks Apple.

I actually ran out because I upgraded my MB and CPU in my computer... luckily you can reset authorizations once a year:

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht1420

Also, if you are going to reformat, de-authorize that computer first, as it adds one to your list of authorizations. (I learned this all after it wanted to remove a bunch of my movies from my iPhone)

Hope it helps.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I say that the people who have been stealing media off the internet are the ones who have screwed everybody. It is also my impression that these same people are the ones who are crying the most about it. What is that saying? Payback is a bitch. So now you all are just getting the pay back because you have cheated the system for so long.

Yes, the system they are proposing has so many flaws but what else are they supposed to do? The industry is getting screwed by these issues.

Now, if you are not one of the whiny smelly cheating stealing downloader people my post is not about you.

I still pay for my internet connection.......

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by fredr123

I'm not sure I really agree with a lot of what I said. I think I would be okay with a world where all the digital locks and DRM are allowed but access to the content is priced accordingly. Fair price, to me, in that world is expressed in pennies not dollars.

Sure, fair price is important but it is also important to maintain the fair use that has existed so that copyrighted materials can be used for things like satire, review and educational purposes.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

As for rewarding innovation, again, not to turn this into Apple fanboi takes on the world, but if Apple is innovating enough to allow you a way to legally obtain movies, music, and TV shows, while watching them on 5 devices (that's more than anyone has mentioned specifically needing in this thread), shouldn't they be rewarded, instead of people insisting on using "legacy devices" to watch DVDs? Yes, I know you already purchased the DVD, but did we complain when we were 'forced' to move from VHS to DVD? I honestly don't remember because I never really personally owned any videocassettes so it wasn't a big deal. Hoping not to come off as Mr. High Horse again, but people seem to be complaining when the answer they seek is right in front of them!

I think that the big difference between the migration between VHS and DVD is that there were some benefits to consumers. Digital, more compact, better quality video and sound, etc. My DVD already has that, so I shouldn't have to purchase a new digital copy and receive no benefits. For all intents and purposes, I already have a perfectly capable digital copy on the DVD. Even for digital copies there is a two-tiered model already. I pay X price for standard definition, and Y price for high-def. There is a benefit for the consumer to pay the higher price, if they wish.

Companies are starting to bundle a digital/portable copy in with their DVDs and Blue-Ray discs. I think that this is a good start - it at least provides some flexibility. Unless the industry is going to provide a digital/portable copy to anyone who has ever purchased a disc so they can use it on other devices, they really shouldn't be pushing for criminalization of breaking a lock for personal use.

If I were to break it down to one major sticking point, is that copyright law used to be about balancing the rights of both sides. If you purchased a CD or DVD, you could use that for your personal enjoyment however you saw fit, as long as you weren't benefiting commercially from it, or distributing it. Seems fair to the user, and the entertainment companies wouldn't have received 3 or 4 sales from the same user anyway - that's crazy. Of course, it seems like we're going down the path towards paying for the same content again, and again, and again. Or maybe people will not see the value anymore and just start pirating it.

Now we are faced with a situation where the media conglomerates have successfully convinced the government that these measures are necessary. Stopping a law-abiding, legally-purchasing customer from using that content for personal use will do absolutely nothing to stop piracy. Go after the uploaders, the distributors, etc. Make the ACT of piracy illegal instead of propping up restrictive DRM with archaic legislation. I just feel a little cheated because I see myself as one of the "good guys". Someone that the industry should be proud of, and not someone who should be hung out to dry at the mercy of lawyers for my "crimes". I bought music and movies when it was cheaper and easier to get them for free. Mainly because it was the right thing to do and I felt that it was a fair transaction with a benefit to me. Now, for the simple request of wanting to watch one of those movies on my iPod without paying for it a second time, or on my media server without paying for it a third time, people like myself are essentially risking our financial well-being. Aren't we what the industry wants and needs - paying customers?

[Cactus Jack]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I say that the people who have been stealing media off the internet are the ones who have screwed everybody. It is also my impression that these same people are the ones who are crying the most about it. What is that saying? Payback is a bitch. So now you all are just getting the pay back because you have cheated the system for so long.

I wholeheartedly disagree. This is entirely the industry's fault. They wanted to continue selling $18 dollar CDs that were 95% pure garbage when a new way to use technology was created. People didn't want to insert a new CD every 10 minutes to hear what they wanted, the public wanted music digitally and the industry refused to give it to them. If iTunes had come out 10 years ago people wouldn't download as much. If you don't give customers what they want, they'll find a way. Greedy industry

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I say that the people who have been stealing media off the internet are the ones who have screwed everybody. It is also my impression that these same people are the ones who are crying the most about it. What is that saying? Payback is a bitch. So now you all are just getting the pay back because you have cheated the system for so long.

I think that you've obviously got a point - people aren't going to like having to pay for something that they have had for free for years. The anti-circumvention provisions, however, aren't really going to sway pirates in any way. That's where an important distinction is lost - not everyone is a pirate, and particularly not those that bought the disc in the first place.

I'm all for throwing the book at the "real" pirates, but do we really have to take out all of the legal customers at the same time? Collateral damage, I guess, but the industry is using an atom bomb approach when a little more precision would do more to stop piracy while maintaining their integrity with their customers.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I say that the people who have been stealing media off the internet are the ones who have screwed everybody. It is also my impression that these same people are the ones who are crying the most about it. What is that saying? Payback is a bitch. So now you all are just getting the pay back because you have cheated the system for so long.

Yes, the system they are proposing has so many flaws but what else are they supposed to do? The industry is getting screwed by these issues.

Now, if you are not one of the whiny smelly cheating stealing downloader people my post is not about you.

So you've never dubbed a cassette, borrowed a book from a friend, photocopied something at the library, taped something from the radio, recorded a show on your VCR without deleting it 48 hours after, played music in public without paying ASCAP/BMI royalties?

Pretty impressive if you've never committed any of these copyright violations.

The industry is not getting screwed, the public, artists and content creators are.