How satisfied are you with the Nazem Kadri deal

[Jiri Hrdina]

Conditions are:
- flames get whichever 2nd is better
- the 2028 1st slips to 2029 if Colorado has to give it to Toronto in the Roy deal (which happens a if the 2027 1st in that deal is top 10, or if the 2028 1st is top 10). If either happens (unlikely) the Flames get an unprotected 2029 1st

[Itse]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I wanted the tank for a number of years, and that's what we have.

The Weegar deal was shocking to me, but without the Kadri deal, it made less sense.

We currently sit 31st, but there is a number of teams right around us.

I get you can't lose them all, but that really needs to be the goal. I get that players will always try very hard (at least the Flame players will), but losing right now will benefit the team more long term.

I don't think they can catch the Canucks, but we can out tank the rest.

31st is looking pretty safe. Our current roster is truly terrible.

[reddude]

I am giving this a 9 very tidy work by Connie loved Kadri as a Flame i was actually wondering if they would get this across the finish line.
I think we are stocked well with picks and some good prospects a few veterans coming back to help us hit the cap floor and can be flipped next year.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Itse

31st is looking pretty safe. Our current roster is truly terrible.

Although the blues have somehow won 3 in a row, their roster is equally bad after shipping out many players also.

And Calgary has decent goaltending and a history of good efforts.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Castagna is another interesting guy. Huge motor than never stops running and an assassin in the faceoff dot. The kid has won almost 65% of his faceoffs this year. Good skater, solid two way play, faceoff specialist, and never gives up. Has Stephane Yelle written all over him. Not saying that either of these players are going to achieve those lofty comparisons, but we now have two centers with skills we were sorely lacking prior to the trade deadline. A nice piece of work.

From a conversation with a guy who has seen him several times in the last 3 years and is paid for his opinion on amateurs, its safe for me to state that fans should have a decent level of excitement for this player.

He is a big fan.

[Jason14h]

Conditions are we get the better 2nd of Minny and Colorado 2nd

[GranteedEV]

We got a first round pick and a second round pick for a 35 year old who was checked out

The Flames just need to get a franchise player (who plays centre) or two at the top of the draft, we have every other area of asset acquisition humming along.

[Sylvanfan]

They do bung up a retention slot for multiple years, and the premier asset is 2 or 3 seasons away. But the return in a trade like this is less consequential than being willing to make the trade. Definitely puts the team all in on a rebuild and hopefully these next three drafts can yield some elite players. The trade itself is fine. But it's the action of making the trade that I think ultimately benefits the team long term. The fact that the Flames got this package with 20% retention would definitely have been laughed at in the summer of 2023 when many thought this contract could be a boat anchor.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

They do bung up a retention slot for multiple years, and the premier asset is 2 or 3 seasons away. But the return in a trade like this is less consequential than being willing to make the trade. Definitely puts the team all in on a rebuild and hopefully these next three drafts can yield some elite players. The trade itself is fine. But it's the action of making the trade that I think ultimately benefits the team long term. The fact that the Flames got this package with 20% retention would definitely have been laughed at in the summer of 2023 when many thought this contract could be a boat anchor.

They use up a retention spot but frankly who really care about retention spots on this team. They aren't going to be anywhere near the cap in the upcoming future nor should they be. The fact that the cap is going up as well makes retention slightly less valuable and there is no double retention anymore so that benefit is gone as well. Ultimately I don't think that it hurts the Flames in any measurable way.

Also think about how the Flames a few years ago got an asset for free and have managed to turn it into assets for a rebuild. Then look up in Edmonton where they sign a player than then have to buy them out (Campbell) or have to package them with a first round pick just to get rid of them (Mangipane). A UFA signing working out this well is really rare.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

They use up a retention spot but frankly who really care about retention spots on this team. They aren't going to be anywhere near the cap in the upcoming future nor should they be. The fact that the cap is going up as well makes retention slightly less valuable and there is no double retention anymore so that benefit is gone as well. Ultimately I don't think that it hurts the Flames in any measurable way.

Also think about how the Flames a few years ago got an asset for free and have managed to turn it into assets for a rebuild. Then look up in Edmonton where they sign a player than then have to buy them out (Campbell) or have to package them with a first round pick just to get rid of them (Mangipane). A UFA signing working out this well is really rare.

Say next year they want to trade Coleman, Strome, and Frost who will all be pending UFA's. That's where losing a retention slot is a bit of a hinderence. It's a big reason why not retaining on Weegar is a benefit on that deal.

Let's not forget that the Flames ended up paying a pretty high pick plus Manahan in order to clear up the cap space to bring Kadri in. Conroy did well to get a good return here. But I don't think this series of transactions is the example to be heaving rocks at the Oilers moves. The Flames salvage this because they've become a bottom feeder about to miss the playoffs for a fourth straight season. The Oilers have won 7 playoff rounds in the last three seasons. The two teams have been in very different places on ice.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

7, probably meant to put 8.

Trade is solid. I just would've loved a sooner 1st rounder. But the rest of the package is great.

I would echo this sentiment. Overall the trade is good, but the timing of the return is problematic. A 2028 1st that could slide to 2029 means the player we get from that pick is unlikely to make an impact on the roster until 2031 or even later.

On the plus side, the further out the pick is, the more likely the Avs could decline and increase the value of the pick.

Unfortunately, the Avs really did not have much more to give. They have 1 draft pick in the first three rounds of the next three drafts and their prospect pool does not have much to offer.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I would echo this sentiment. Overall the trade is good, but the timing of the return is problematic. A 2028 1st that could slide to 2029 means the player we get from that pick is unlikely to make an impact on the roster until 2031 or even later.

On the plus side, the further out the pick is, the more likely the Avs could decline and increase the value of the pick.

Unfortunately, the Avs really did not have much more to give. They have 1 draft pick in the first three rounds of the next three drafts and their prospect pool does not have much to offer.

It's not like we're going to be aging out of our hypothetical competitive window by then.

By 2031, Wolf and Zary are going to be 29.

What I want from the management is less an attempt to build a cup contender as soon as possible, but rather making consistently solid decisions that keeps the team competitive in a sustainable way.

Having a steady influx of good young players for 5 years sounds great to me.

[shutout]

First
Second
Prospect (center, big)

How can you not like the returns on the deal

[Fan69]

Originally Posted by shutout

First
Second
Prospect (center, big)

How can you not like the returns on the deal

Ya no kidding. I would have been happy to get the first back it cost us to sign him and anything else is gravy. Getting a second and a legit center prospect is found money. Even better than finding that 20 in an old coat.


Dont mistake me liked kadri the player before, during and after, but getting assets like that on a 36 year old is just sweet.

[Macindoc]

Pretty much as good as we could expect given Kadri’s age, contract, and declining play. Gave it a 9.

[JBR]

9/10. Would have been an easy 10 if Colorado had put David Putney in the deal.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Itse

It's not like we're going to be aging out of our hypothetical competitive window by then.

By 2031, Wolf and Zary are going to be 29.

What I want from the management is less an attempt to build a cup contender as soon as possible, but rather making consistently solid decisions that keeps the team competitive in a sustainable way.

Having a steady influx of good young players for 5 years sounds great to me.

That is a lot of years of Wolf, Parekh, Coronato, Gridin, Zary, etc. to waste. I want management to smartly build around these guys and not follow the sentiments of fans that the rebuild just started. In short, building around these existing assets is not "rushing".

First consideration: Player retention - These young players could play through a couple of bad seasons if they see the building blocks coming in to pull out of the rebuild sooner than later. If the rebuild is going to be 5+ years then the chances of keeping these guys in 2031 will shrink. They may or may not demand a trade but after living in the league basement for nearly a decade they will increasingly not want to sign an extension with the Flames when the RFA handcuffs come off.

We need 2026 to be a big draft for the Flames to help with player retention. My hope is 3 picks in the 1st round with a top 2 pick and then another top 10 pick (my expectation is we won't get that).

Second consideration: The way the team and the prospect pipeline is built right now, we have a few potential stars and lot of good middle and depth players. The pipeline is just missing superstar player(s) to build out the top line. Dragging out a rebuild to "do it properly" is arguable the wrong move as it wastes all of the existing assets when you really only need 2-3 high-end additions (and a few years of maturing) to turn this team around.

So, yes, in a general way I agree that having long term inputs will help the team. However, that does not change the fact that the trade fails to meet two big requirements: Urgency to support the existing young players, nor does it address the team's biggest needs (future #1C or top line wingers).

That is the whole punchline of the quality over quantity argument to *this* specific rebuild. We have too many existing pieces to pretend that there are no consequences to a long rebuild or to keep missing on addressing the team's biggest need while piling on pieces we have tonnes of already.

Breaking down the trade:
- Moving out Kadri = Great, he clearly needed/wanted to go and his demoralized play was only going to reduce his value
- Sending a 2027 4th = Fine. On the one hand, that 2027 4th might have more value than Curran who was a 5th in 2024. On the other hand, sending this pick was probably needed to get the 1st and 2nd.
- 2028 1st = Great, not excellent because of the number of years out. Goes down in score if it slides to 2029.
- 2027 2nd = Good.
- Olofsson = Meh.
- Curran = Meh, we picked Luke Misa 11 spots ahead of this guy. Both are long shots to make the NHL but I think Misa has a stronger chance to surprise us.

Giving the 8/10 is entirely because we got a 1st back but this was not a home run and one could argue that the 1st is a wash because of the 1st Tre spent to make room for Kadri.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Wolven

- 2028 1st = Great, not excellent because of the number of years out. Goes down in score if it slides to 2029.

Disagree on this one, could be a home run if it slides to 2029. By then most of the Avs star players will be mid-late 30's and it's likely they will be declining. That would also mean that one of their 2027 or 2028 picks was a top 10 which means for sure they are on the way down. An unprotected potential lottery pick would be way better than a mid 20's+ pick even if we do need to wait a year longer.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Disagree on this one, could be a home run if it slides to 2029. By then most of the Avs star players will be mid-late 30's and it's likely they will be declining. That would also mean that one of their 2027 or 2028 picks was a top 10 which means for sure they are on the way down. An unprotected potential lottery pick would be way better than a mid 20's+ pick even if we do need to wait a year longer.

Imagine having a very good young playoff team in the 2028/29 season, a stacked prospect pool, and then getting a top 10 or top 5 pick from the Avs in the 2029 draft....with the draft taking place in the Flames 2 year old arena and we send Norris winning Flames Dman Cale Makar to the stage to make the pick.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Disagree on this one, could be a home run if it slides to 2029. By then most of the Avs star players will be mid-late 30's and it's likely they will be declining. That would also mean that one of their 2027 or 2028 picks was a top 10 which means for sure they are on the way down. An unprotected potential lottery pick would be way better than a mid 20's+ pick even if we do need to wait a year longer.

Maybe. Or they could do what the Pens are doing this year and make the playoffs with their ancient all-star core. We won't know the answer for years.

Either way, that pick is getting far enough out that it becomes unlikely to contribute to building of this roster within Wolf's contract. Draft in 2029, 2-3 years to develop and Wolf's contract is pretty much over (2033).

Hoping that it becomes a lottery pick is fun and all but you have to acknowledge that it is an unlikely scenario. They are far more likely to be a middling team that still makes the playoffs and their GM will spend other assets to try and make that happen because they do not have their 1st round pick.