[PGT] Blues defeat Flames 3-2, Nov. 11th

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

These hard fought 1 goal losses are very digestible.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It isn't really team "Make Playoffs". It's team "Not Cheering For Losses".

I'm on Team Not Sweating Over Occasional Wins Because You Can't Lose Them All.

It's good to see some fight in these guys. It's expected that it won't be enough most nights.

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So …just a question for all those cheering the losses … what do the Flames do when losing, losing, losing finally destroys every ounce of energy, creativity and joy in the young players, including Wolfie? Got a plan for that?

Really…I want to know, because there’s a human aspect, too. (And yes, I’ve worked for a terminal organization…accountants always are the last to go….)

Oh, but that never happens, because there's no such thing as culture. NHL athletes are just bits of code in EA Sports game cards. You can just restart the simulator with their GAF meter set to maximum.

I agree with Calgary4LIfe that the Flames' culture is not great – but it could get far worse. The team can be outplayed through lack of talent, but if they get outworked consistently, that's a sign that they're simply checked out, and that's a rotten environment to plug talented rookies into in the future. (It was not entirely a coincidence that so many teams with Taylor Hall on them drafted #1 overall.)

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Red Potato Standing By

Or they become buffalo west and flames fans start sounding like cooler fans cheering for losses.

a risk i'm willing to take over finishing 16th again.

[MikePatton]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So …just a question for all those cheering the losses …

What season was it where they were a poor hockey team but were still fun to watch? 2013-2014? I'm fine with the losses, I'd just also like for the team to look like they're having fun sometimes. Because if they're not then neither am I.

[jg13]

Originally Posted by MikePatton

What season was it where they were a poor hockey team but were still fun to watch? 2013-2014? I'm fine with the losses, I'd just also like for the team to look like they're having fun sometimes. Because if they're not then neither am I.

Yep. The year we drafted Monahan and he made the team out of camp and scored 22

[Itse]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

This has to be one of the worst teams in NHL history. We are terrible.

Oh we're not even close yet.

There's been plenty of seasons in the 10 win range over the years. 74-75 Capitals only had 8 wins.

We're on pace for 18 wins. You need to imagine teams that were twice as bad as this one. We could get down there as this goes on though.

(We're currently not terrible defensively.)

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Itse

There's been plenty of seasons in the 10 win range over the years. 74-75 Capitals only had 8 wins.

And they managed that in a league already stuffed with bad expansion teams like the California Golden Seals and Kansas City Scouts. The Caps couldn't even take wins from teams that were desperate to give them away.

The Caps' leading scorer that year was a 34-year-old journeyman named Tommy Williams, who somehow managed 22 goals and 58 points. Nobody else on the team managed more than 35 points. Some teams are a real ‘Who's Who’ of hockey talent. The '74 Capitals were a ‘Who's That?’

[Buff]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The Bruins own the league record for biggest season to season point drop between 2023 to 2024 going from 135 points down to 76 (59 point drop). To do that, the flames would need to finish with 37 points. Not likely to happen but I can’t remember ever seeing a team this bad before.

How old are you?

You weren't around to see the expansion Senators and Lightning? How about the Quebec Nordiques before drafting Lindros?

Surely you're old enough to remember the Edmonton Oilers?

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The Bruins own the league record for biggest season to season point drop between 2023 to 2024 going from 135 points down to 76 (59 point drop). To do that, the flames would need to finish with 37 points. Not likely to happen but I can’t remember ever seeing a team this bad before.

92/93 sharks and Senators... but the last team I can Vividly remember is the 11/12 and 16/17 Colorado Avalanche . The 2012 to 2016 Sabres were also very brutal.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Itse

Oh we're not even close yet.

There's been plenty of seasons in the 10 win range over the years. 74-75 Capitals only had 8 wins.

We're on pace for 18 wins. You need to imagine teams that were twice as bad as this one. We could get down there as this goes on though.

(We're currently not terrible defensively.)

The 2023-24 Sharks had a record of 19-54-9 for 47 points. This was the worst record over a full 82 game season since the introduction of the shootout (when the number of wins increased dramatically).

The 2016-17 Avalanche were 22-56-4 for 48 points.


No other teams have had fewer than 50 points in a full 82 game season and that Sharks team is the only one that didn't reach 20 wins in the shootout era.

[combustiblefuel]

I'd be happy with any of the top 3 picks this year. The number 2 and 4th pick in 2015 seem to be doing alright . To a lesser extent pick 3 . But Stromes doing fairly well now in Washington. I bet Arizona would like to go back to the Draft and pick Marner instead.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by getbak

The 2023-24 Sharks had a record of 19-54-9 for 47 points. This was the worst record over a full 82 game season since the introduction of the shootout (when the number of wins increased dramatically).

The 2016-17 Avalanche were 22-56-4 for 48 points.


No other teams have had fewer than 50 points in a full 82 game season and that Sharks team is the only one that didn't reach 20 wins in the shootout era.

That's fair, although I don't think we should overlook the 2019-20 Red Wings with their .275 p% over what ended up as a 71 game season. That's currently the worst season of the post-cap era.

That Sharks team you mentioned had a .287 p%.

We're sitting at .278. Definitely a competitor for the modern record.

Btw, in literal all time NHL 100+ year history, all teams have combined for 1759 season records (including this year). The 25-26 Flames record so far is 1720th, or 39th from the bottom. It'll be a new kind of exciting to see how low we can go!

...personally I don't quite understand the mentality of Team Anti-Tank. No matter how anyone feels about it, this team is likely to lose 60-70 games this season.

You can choose to be miserable about it, or you can choose to be hopeful about the future and have some laughs.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh, but that never happens, because there's no such thing as culture. NHL athletes are just bits of code in EA Sports game cards. You can just restart the simulator with their GAF meter set to maximum.

I agree with Calgary4LIfe that the Flames' culture is not great – but it could get far worse. The team can be outplayed through lack of talent, but if they get outworked consistently, that's a sign that they're simply checked out, and that's a rotten environment to plug talented rookies into in the future. (It was not entirely a coincidence that so many teams with Taylor Hall on them drafted #1 overall.)

This again. You go on an on about culture yet you don't provide specifics of what the team should do about it other than keep some of the vets.

Ok, so they keep some of the vets. Then what?

[Ashes]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So …just a question for all those cheering the losses … what do the Flames do when losing, losing, losing finally destroys every ounce of energy, creativity and joy in the young players, including Wolfie? Got a plan for that?

Really…I want to know, because there’s a human aspect, too. (And yes, I’ve worked for a terminal organization…accountants always are the last to go….)

The kids will be fine. All this talk about culture and how will the kids and team feel after a bad season.. well we had an amazing culture by all account last season, team was having fun and had each other backs, "one of the best locker rooms ever" we heard from a few guys. And yet.. this season is the complete opposite.

In fact, so far this season is an absolute tire-fire even though there's been virtually no roster turnover.. goes to show that from one year to the next there's no carry over. There's just as good of a chance that the Flames make the playoffs next season as there's a chance that they bottom out again.

This also might end up being Wolf's worst season in his career, we might not even get another shot at a top pick like this, so yeah I'm not worried at all about long-term implications personally. Get a top pick and move forward, sell vets this season and get more picks. This season is lost 20% of the way into the year.. it's time to accept it and steer towards the cliff and set ourselves up to be great in a few years.

I hate that the NHL rewards losing with high picks, but the system is what it is and for once we are in a position to benefit from it, so let's just rip the bandaid.

Also IMO there's still lots to enjoy for one bad year, (following Flames prospects, research the draft, WJC, seeing young guys get their first taste of the NHL this season). It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom.

[Draug]

I, for one, hate this!

[flame4life]

I hate to cycle back to my before the season started comments, but I think the Rasmus uncertainty and not getting that taken care of before the season has been a drag on the "culture" of the team ... to a lesser degree, the Kadri thing as well. I am ok keeping Kadri, and really think he doesn't want to depart, which I also appreciate, but I think the team did a disservice by not addressing it publicly. I miss the days when if there was a rumor out there, that the front office would squash it pretty quick. That also has seemed to fester over the course of the season.

To add to the culture issues this year, to me has been the handling of the young guns and the integration into the roster. Yes, we were a bit handcuffed with the inability to have Parekh play in the AHL this year, but once that was not an option, it has become clear that he needs to learn, make mistakes, and correct with on the job training. I think he has sat way too many times. Has he made mistakes, yes, but I have also seen him correct them as he goes. The veteran core have been far less perfect this year so far.

This is going to be a rough year for sure, but I will never actively cheer for losses. The day I turn that direction, is the day I tap out as a "Fan". Do I want my team to be successful and have a first round draft pick or generational player. Absolutely. But I prefer to let things happen as they are meant to be, not intentionally forcing a "tank narrative" for something that is not guaranteed.

Go Flames! There were some positive steps last night - actually scoring, seeing some of the players that have been struggling make a little bit of strides. Played better than we have had in a while, and still lost. So I am happy. And, from the sounds of its, so are most of the "tank crowd".

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

But you gotta love the core!

Apple core…who’s your friend.

[BigThief]

You'd have go all the way back to the 2023-2034 and 2024-2025 San Jose Sharks to find a team as bad.

Some of you are spastic nuts. The Sharks had 39 wins those two seasons and some of you are like omg flames worst ever. This is what being dead last looks like. Accept it

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Is there anyone still left on team make-playoffs?

I was told you had to wait to game 20-25 to make that decision.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So …just a question for all those cheering the losses … what do the Flames do when losing, losing, losing finally destroys every ounce of energy, creativity and joy in the young players, including Wolfie? Got a plan for that?

Really…I want to know, because there’s a human aspect, too. (And yes, I’ve worked for a terminal organization…accountants always are the last to go….)

In recent years, the Ducks and Sharks have iced abysmal rosters and wound up with the worst records in the league.

Today, the young players who were breaking into the league on those awful teams have them in playoff positions. The losing doesn’t seem to have damaged them at all.