Spirit feeling broken

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Groot

A portion of fans have convinced themselves that Murray only cares about sneaking into the playoffs for a couple games of playoff revenue and forces all management decisions based on that. So any decision that isn't burn it to the ground is derided as being based on Edwards greed. It's nonsense and has no basis in reality but they're convinced the $5-$6 million they would earn from 2-3 playoff games is all $3.3Bn net worth Edwards cares about.

Interesting points...how much each season do you think Edwards is prepared to lose?

It's like the arena deal...I get the part about the city needing a venue that size, I get the part about better debt financing rates, etc...

What i always ponder, is why did Calgary tax payers (and Alberta tax payers eventually) have to build a luxury dressing room, weight room, rehabilitation center and practice facilities (disguised as a community arena) for the Flames. All of those operational facilities could've been built by the business over the last decade plus. They didn't have to sink to second last in league voting.

So I hear your arguments, but where there's smoke...

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Interesting points...how much each season do you think Edwards is prepared to lose?

It's like the arena deal...I get the part about the city needing a venue that size, I get the part about better debt financing rates, etc...

What i always ponder, is why did Calgary tax payers (and Alberta tax payers eventually) have to build a luxury dressing room, weight room, rehabilitation center and practice facilities (disguised as a community arena) for the Flames. All of those operational facilities could've been built by the business over the last decade plus. They didn't have to sink to second last in league voting.

So I hear your arguments, but where there's smoke...

Almost all pro sports teams secure deals like this, even though it’s a punch in the gut for taxpayers who don’t get to share even fractionally in the absurd franchise valuations.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Almost all pro sports teams secure deals like this, even though it’s a punch in the gut for taxpayers who don’t get to share even fractionally in the absurd franchise valuations.

Well...technically they do get to share in the absurd franchise valuation, because the extra revenue that drive those valuations comes out of the increased share of taxpayer/fans wallets that are captured.

Tickets will cost more, food will cost more, more corporate boxes will be a new revenue stream kinda, and the share of all the non-flames events they negotiated will also be a new revenue stream...

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Rutuu

Well...technically they do get to share in the absurd franchise valuation, because the extra revenue that drive those valuations comes out of the increased share of taxpayer/fans wallets that are captured.

Tickets will cost more, food will cost more, more corporate boxes will be a new revenue stream kinda, and the share of all the non-flames events they negotiated will also be a new revenue stream...

Well the accepted thinking seems to be that pro sports teams don’t create new economic activity and tax revenue, they just replace other spending for the most part.

But truly, franchise valuations are not really driven by revenue and profits. It’s more about scarcity.

[Monahammer]

Really very interesting, IMO, that the narrative has changed with the arena funded and under construction. No longer is it that the Flames are barely scraping by and are basically a charity for the fans and city. Instead, it's that the flames make enough revenue not to concern themselves with playoff games.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by BagoPucks

Flames did a lot of things right this year. Building a winning culture takes time. We got this. This has been the most hopeful season for me in over 20+ years. Let's see if we can continue on this path and achieve a championship

A team that purposely lost for a decade (with most of the org management and some key players still remaining from that time) has been to the stanley cup finals for two straight seasons. Have been reasonable contenders for 3 seasons.

"Winning Culture" is basically hokum. If you can nose dive for more than a decade and come out competing for the cup, then "building culture" is basically a pointless exercise wasting time on good feelings or some mumbo jumbo.

[Jason14h]

100%. It like the “Patriots Way” in the NFL

It’s amazing how the Pats winning culture disapeared with Tom Brady

Almost like having a superstar who wins creates the winning culture

[Monahammer]

Don't know where to put this, but Draisaitl is 6th OA in Selke voting. Backlund, only flame to receive votes, 35th with 3 5th place votes.

[Vinny01]

If Edmonton did not win the lottery to get the best player on the planet they are likely where the Sabres are today. They got extremely lucky with the lotto balls and the rules were changed because of it. 2007-2020 has to be one of the worst overall performances a franchise can make. People forget about it now it seems because the last 5 years have been extremely solid for the Oilers that likely doesn’t happen if they draft Strome, Marner or Hanifin instead of McDavid. The Oilers picked top 10 for 11 of 13 years and 3 of the 4 seasons after they drafted McDavid

Ultimately only Nuge, Draisaitl, McDavid, and Bouchard remain of the 11 top 10 picks they made from 07-20

[GranteedEV]

I have not watched a playoff game this year since Edmonton flipped the Kings series around. Not gonna let myself get emotionally invested

[Groot]

N/m

[flamesfan1297]

I won't be watching the finals either, I've lost interest in these playoffs. The Oilers are my biggest enemy as a Flames fan, don't want to see them or their fans happy. And I'm tired of Florida/Tkachuk. And there's no coach I hate more than Paul Maurice. I'll be cheering for the Panthers in the final, but not watching. I'm excited for the Flames next season and think that the future is bright in Calgary.

[CliffFletcher]

I’ve watched more playoff games now than I watched regular season games this season. It’s just way better, more entertaining hockey, no matter who’s playing.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

I won't be watching the finals either, I've lost interest in these playoffs. The Oilers are my biggest enemy as a Flames fan, don't want to see them or their fans happy. And I'm tired of Florida/Tkachuk. And there's no coach I hate more than Paul Maurice. I'll be cheering for the Panthers in the final, but not watching. I'm excited for the Flames next season and think that the future is bright in Calgary.

I'm finding Florida's antics really repetitive and non-entertaining at this point. The league really needs to crackdown on this. It's one thing to allow more hard-nosed play and bigger hits. It's another to allow constant cheap shots for the purpose of getting under the other team's skin.

There's been one fight all playoffs, and it didn't involve Florida. The NHL has created a paradigm where the cheap shot artists are allowed to get away with everything, but put a stop to fighting, which was the main deterrent against a cheap shot. Something has to give.

The Edmonton style of being totally dependent on a few players is equally un-entertaining. When I think of playoff hockey, I think of a team game. Having Perry or Kane occasionally pitch in, if anything, takes away from things.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well the accepted thinking seems to be that pro sports teams don’t create new economic activity and tax revenue, they just replace other spending for the most part.

But truly, franchise valuations are not really driven by revenue and profits. It’s more about scarcity.

Something that I rarely hear about when these things are discussed, but, at least in B.C., roughly 30% of a construction project costs go directly to taxes (mostly income and corporate). And then you have spinoff taxes generated from additional economic activity by folks working on projects of this scale (food, clothes, fuel, staff accommodation), which probably puts about 40-50% of costs of these projects into government coffers.

As these projects are finished, well planned city's can also increase their tax revenues in the longer term, as they can attract more infill buildings for residential and front line businesses in these areas.

Governments do a pretty bad job explaining these benefits (and maybe it's because they'd then be negotiating against themselves), but it's likely why Alberta is dumping $300m in additional transportation and infrastructure improvements into the project, as most of that is simply coming from generated tax revenue from the build.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

the Flames have one of the worst/greediest owners in pro sports

I hope everyone keeps repeating this as it is the ultimate truth.

The ownership is responsible for the Flames remaining in forever mediocrity.

There isn't a day I wish the team isn't put up for sale to a new ownership group. I thought it would happen once the Arena started being built that Murray Edwards would cash out but so far no luck.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

100%. It like the “Patriots Way” in the NFL

It’s amazing how the Pats winning culture disapeared with Tom Brady

Almost like having a superstar who wins creates the winning culture

Winning builds winning culture. Well said.