Friedman's 31 - June 25. Dougie's role. Rieder UFA. Flames interested in Zucker?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm pretty sure Bingo months back posted some advanced stats that showed that Hamilton's advanced stats were better than Gio's and if someone looked at those alone they would think that it was Hamilton carrying Gio. We know that's not the case all the time but Gio isn't perfect and has had some tough times. It's very possible that Gio and Hamilton complemented each other as I don't care what anyone says here Hamilton isn't bad defensively and advanced stats prove that. I'm the first person to tell you that I don't believe advanced stats are the be all end all but if a guy has elite advanced numbers it's hard to paint a picture that he's a train wreck defensively like some are here.

When I see a stat that suggests that Hamilton was carrying Giordano defensively (even a little bit), I don't think: "hey, maybe Hamilton is better than I thought defensively", I think: "that stat is garbage".

Because it simply wasn't true. Hamilton wasn't always terrible defensively, but he was too stationary, not aggressive enough, too soft, and too often too disinterested, to ever be considered great defensively.

Hamilton has all the talent in the world. He has the potential to be a Norris trophy winner for sure. But there is no chance in hell of that happening, unless he has some kind of game-changing attitude adjustment.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Beninho

It’s a fact Hamilton was a mess in his own end away from Gio. Pretty much every time he was away from him he looked bad.

Do you have any actual facts to back up your claim or is you saying it just supposed to make it a fact?

Any specific shifts you can call out or anything? I don't have memories that corroborate your opinion.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Do you have any actual facts to back up your claim or is you saying it just supposed to make it a fact?

Any specific shifts you can call out or anything? I don't have memories that corroborate your opinion.

No, I just remember every time he was not paired with Gio he struggled in his own end. No stats, just what I remember. There’s a reason he was never used with anyone else, he was terrible away from Gio the first few months he was here and then they moved him up with Gio. I’m pretty sure others have memories that will corroborate with my claims.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think it's a huge stretch to say his chances of winning a Norris now are similar to what Hall's would have been to win the Hart when he was traded - in other words, it seems pretty unlikely but it's not inconceivable by any means. Very few people considered Hall an elite player before the trade, incidentally.

A player who finishes 6th in league scoring is elite, whether Flames fans wanted to admit it or not. Once Hamilton has finished top-6 in defenceman scoring for a couple seasons, I'll start to consider the Norris trophy a possibility.

[The Boy Wonder]

We all want to paint this trade as either Terrible or excellent and really its somewhere in between.

At this point no one knows whether its good or bad or who won the trade. FAct is Tre moved three assets, one who was very unhappy (seemingly), one who was likely never going to sign here, and one who was probably going to leave after next season as a ufa.

GEtting back two RFA and young assets seems like a smart decision when looking at just that side of it, will Dougie maybe go on to become a Norris winner? maybe but hand-wringing over it isn't gonna do anything.

If a trade doesn't make you uncomfortable then it is either because you are trading with Chiarelli or else you are playing NHL98 and while I fall on the side of liking this trade, it has potential to blow up in Trelivings face, but I think its riskier to hold onto those assets and likely lose both fox and ferkland and who knows what you have to do with dougie.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So we blame the season on him, despite him being statistically one of the very best defencemen in the entire league?

This is our Hall trade. Not to the same degree, but embarrassing nonetheless.

We traded Gaudreau for Ryan Ellis?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

We traded Gaudreau for Ryan Ellis?

I meant it more in that we were straight downgrading and hoping that the pieces we traded for can one day hope to have the impact of the player we were giving up (followed by rumours of poor character), not that we were trading a star winger for a young #4 defenceman.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I meant it more in that we were straight downgrading and hoping that the pieces we traded for can one day hope to have the impact of the player we were giving up (followed by rumours of poor character), not that we were trading a star winger for a young #4 defenceman.

I know, I meant it more as an insult to the Oilers than a dig at your post.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

We traded Gaudreau for Ryan Ellis?

Ryan Ellis is much better than Adam Larsson.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Beninho

No, I just remember every time he was not paired with Gio he struggled in his own end. No stats, just what I remember.

And of course you have a perfect memory and recall exactly what he did on each and every shift of each and every game.

Pro tip: Counting things is easier than memorizing them individually, and infinitely easier than recalling them individually months later. This is why statistics were invented.

[H2SO4(aq)]

What would it cost to get zucker? Brouwer + Stone?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

What would it cost to get zucker? Brouwer + Stone?

+ Hanowski.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

What would it cost to get zucker? Brouwer + Stone?

You'd probably have to attach a 2nd round pick to Brouwer+Stone just to get nothing, nevermind a 30 goal scorer.

[Captaincanada80]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

What would it cost to get zucker? Brouwer + Stone?

Not even close. The salary dump is rumored to go in the other direction so Ennis is likely attached to Zucker. Then start with a B level prospect and potentially a 1st or 2nd.

[Heavy Jack]

You’re joking right? He’s a 30/30 guy last year and yes who knows if that was a flash in the pan but I think it costs at least Bennett ++ for Zucker and the ++ is next years 1st and a good prospect and he’s the type of guy you have to be careful acquiring.

Can he be a consistent 30/30 guy or is he more of a 20/20 guy? He’s entering his prime years and he seems to disappear in the playoffs.

I’d be weary of going for him because the cost will be too high.

And Brouwer isn’t going anywhere sadly lol

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

What would it cost to get zucker? Brouwer + Stone?

Lololol

[iloveicedhockey]

I think they were on about mark stone

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

We all want to paint this trade as either Terrible or excellent and really its somewhere in between.

At this point no one knows whether its good or bad or who won the trade.

I think Lindholm and Hanifin are good players. So to his credit, Treliving didn't trade for magic beans. But he does have a growing track record of being on the short end of a trade and that is not the kind of asset management I want to see long term. I certainly hope Lindholm and Hanifin continue to improve, they both have excellent pedigrees. It has really nothing to do with them and more to do with what is being given up to get them.

Also, I hope this talk that Treliving is "listening to his players" isn't true. I'm not too concerned with what a group that quit a month before season's end think is wrong with the team. That same group whined Hartley onto the next flight out of town. Sooner or later Treliving will realize he's being consulted by the infirmary.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

We all want to paint this trade as either Terrible or excellent and really its somewhere in between.

At this point no one knows whether its good or bad or who won the trade. FAct is Tre moved three assets, one who was very unhappy (seemingly), one who was likely never going to sign here, and one who was probably going to leave after next season as a ufa.

GEtting back two RFA and young assets seems like a smart decision when looking at just that side of it, will Dougie maybe go on to become a Norris winner? maybe but hand-wringing over it isn't gonna do anything.

If a trade doesn't make you uncomfortable then it is either because you are trading with Chiarelli or else you are playing NHL98 and while I fall on the side of liking this trade, it has potential to blow up in Trelivings face, but I think its riskier to hold onto those assets and likely lose both fox and ferkland and who knows what you have to do with dougie.

I will go on record now and say Hamilton never wins a Norris.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Also, I hope this talk that Treliving is "listening to his players" isn't true. I'm not too concerned with what a group that quit a month before season's end think is wrong with the team. That same group whined Hartley onto the next flight out of town. Sooner or later Treliving will realize he's being consulted by the infirmary.

Better him listening to players than anyone here listening to contrived fluff like this.

Hartley was let go for several reasons, I'm betting none of which were the result of "whining".

Second, with all the injuries and the noted problems in the room, it's really tough to listen to someone who has no idea what went on suggesting everyone just "quit".