Calgary businesses launch petition calling for open liquor on 17 Avenue

[Tacopuck]

I'll be honest, pubic drinking laws have never really stopped me from drinking in public, they just make me be more discreet about it. To me thats the only real value to public drinking laws

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by troutman

It's not perfect in Europe either. Many times I saw people puking on sidewalks and on public transport.

Besides, we can already do this with Barnoculars.

This doesn't happen now in Canada?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

.... do you not?!

I am not going to say until it's legal.

But I do feel like ranting about those useless gas fire pits that replaced the old wood fire pits. They don't even get you warmed up enough, they just just increase your risk of breaking an ankle every time you go back and forth to them from the ice.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tacopuck

I'll be honest, pubic drinking laws have never really stopped me from drinking in public, they just make me be more discreet about it. To me thats the only real value to public drinking laws

I'd have to disagree with you.

As per my prior post, forcing people into segregated areas, forcing them to hide is not suiting its purpose.

Make it open and make it legal. That way people are openly and publically responsible for their behaviour.

If you're in a bar its perfectly acceptable to get blasted because thats where people go to get blasted, if you're in public you have to behave and be responsible. Thats the whole point.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd have to disagree with you.

As per my prior post, forcing people into segregated areas, forcing them to hide is not suiting its purpose.

Make it open and make it legal. That way people are openly and publically responsible for their behaviour.

If you're in a bar its perfectly acceptable to get blasted because thats where people go to get blasted, if you're in public you have to behave and be responsible. Thats the whole point.

I dont disagree, I was merely pointing out that the only value I see is to force people be a little more discreet with their actions. In reality we already have laws that prevent people from being wasted and a nuisance (public intoxication).

[CliffFletcher]

I was busted for open liquor while walking with a friend down a deserted path at a provincial campground at 11 pm. Wasn't making any noise, there was nobody near us, and we weren't hammered. But I had a can of beer in my hand, so enjoy the $100 fine.

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm also going to add that I was mocked endlessly for our open-alcohol laws when I was in Europe.

When I volunteered at the Folk Festival beer gardens I got an earful from tourists on more than one occasion. They were absolutely mystified and appalled that they had to be penned into a corner of the festival grounds if they wanted to drink a beer.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I was busted for open liquor while walking with a friend down a deserted path at a provincial campground at 11 pm. Wasn't making any noise, there was nobody near us, and we weren't hammered. But I had a can of beer in my hand, so enjoy the $100 fine.

When I volunteered at the Folk Festival beer gardens I got an earful from tourists on more than one occasion. They were absolutely mystified and appalled that they had to be penned into a corner of the festival grounds if they wanted to drink a beer.

Beer Gardens are by far the dumbest thing North America has ever invented. What a stupid construct.

"We dont want people getting drunk and harassing the lovely sober people and their families, so if you want to go to a festival or event we'll sequester you in a crappy little field in the corner where you cant go anywhere or do anything except drink as much as possible as fast as you can.

And then we'll discharge your drunk ass right back into the middle of the event among all of the sober people and their kids because allowing you to drink an alcoholic beverage over time while being allowed to enjoy a show and simultaneously being allowed to wander about harming nobody and being respectful while attending the event you bought tickets for in the first place is a bad idea."

[getbak]

Aren't Beer Gardens a German invention?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by getbak

Aren't Beer Gardens a German invention?

I think you're thinking of 'Kindergarten' but theres usually beer there too.

Maybe I'm doing North America a disservice, but Beer Gardens are idiotic and I hate them.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by getbak

Aren't Beer Gardens a German invention?

The Sumerians, 6000 years ago.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by getbak

Aren't Beer Gardens a German invention?

Yes, but German beer gardens have never been restrictive. They're a pleasant setting to buy and drink beer at tables in a park, but you're free to drink beer elsewhere if you want.

Imagine if the only place you were allowed to eat on Princes Island was at the River Cafe. That's how dumb Europeans think our drinking restrictions are.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

People in the bars!

Why do you go to the bar in the first place? You know you can buy beer in a liqour store already!

Are you really going to walk up and down 17th with all your friends instead of going to the bar? It's not like it's an awesome walking area! If anything I see people taking their last beer to go as they walk to a store/flames game/etc, or when walking the dog.

Or order an extra one for the walk. It's a win for the businesses as far as I'm concerned.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I'm not sure if there is as much of a difference as you think.

Food consumption(which you need) vs recreational drug consumption(a choice) have very little in common IMO. Even if the drug is available in an edible form like beer. You eat food to live, you use recreational drugs for the resulting effect.

If the purpose of leaving the house is to get as drunk as possible, why is the person in your example even going to a hockey game? [/QUOTE]
The purpose of leaving the house is to go to the game, you don’t need a beer to go to the game. The purpose of drinking 6 beers within a couple of hours is mainly to feel the effects of the beer.

I would also argue that there already are alternatives to spending $10 per beer at the Saddledome during the game. Why is this person currently not chugging $6 pints of beer at National before the game to save money?

Yes they already go to other venues, because it’s less expensive. They have options to avoid paying $10 now, and if they change the laws they’ll have options to avoid paying $6. Is it that unreasonable to assume some people will choose that option? The more convenient it is for people to avoid paying $10/beer the more likely it is they won’t be buying $10 beers. If you are entrenched in your position these changes won’t potentially have a negative impact some businesses then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

And why is it that we care so much about liquor sales at one venue vs another? Is $50 spent at the Saddledome more beneficial to the economy than $30 spent at the bar next door or $12 spent at the liquor store? Maybe if people start to find alternatives, it will force certain prices down. Why is that a bad thing?

It’s not a bad thing for consumers, and I’m not opposed to it. Bars and event venues will oppose a change to the law because it can and likely will hurt their business while liquor store owners will support the change because it will benefit theirs. I’m not trying to debate the net economic impact.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Locke

Beer Gardens are by far the dumbest thing North America has ever invented. What a stupid construct.

"We dont want people getting drunk and harassing the lovely sober people and their families, so if you want to go to a festival or event we'll sequester you in a crappy little field in the corner where you cant go anywhere or do anything except drink as much as possible as fast as you can.

And then we'll discharge your drunk ass right back into the middle of the event among all of the sober people and their kids because allowing you to drink an alcoholic beverage over time while being allowed to enjoy a show and simultaneously being allowed to wander about harming nobody and being respectful while attending the event you bought tickets for in the first place is a bad idea."

what makes folk fest beer gardens even worse is minors are allowed in, too.
the only reason you can't drink site wide is the regulation of a security person per x # of people. (1 per 25 people? I honest can't remember)
Last year I was told if the Edmonton folk fest wanted site wide drinking, they would have had to add about 450 more security members to the site.

the province really needs to change the rules.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

what makes folk fest beer gardens even worse is minors are allowed in, too.
the only reason you can't drink site wide is the regulation of a security person per x # of people. (1 per 25 people? I honest can't remember)
Last year I was told if the Edmonton folk fest wanted site wide drinking, they would have had to add about 450 more security members to the site.

the province really needs to change the rules.

We all need to change the rules. The rules are stupid.

I think our current rules are doing more harm than good which is why I'm strongly in favour of open liquor licenses.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Locke

We all need to change the rules. The rules are stupid.

I think our current rules are doing more harm than good which is why I'm strongly in favour of open liquor licenses.

I agree. at the same time they should allow places to serve 24 hours a day if they want to.
Maybe so many people wouldn't binge drink at last call, and you wouldn't have the troubles with masses of drunk people trying to get home at the same time.

When I lived in Sydney Australia, they allowed bars to serve 24 hours, and this was over 20 years ago. Society didn't collapse. It was nice to be able to grab a beer after work, no matter what time that might be.

[getbak]

This reminds me of the time I was in Prague and asked the bartender when last call was. He didn't understand my question, so I asked when they stopped selling alcohol. His response was, "We don't." Then I asked when they closed. "Whenever the last person goes home."

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I agree. at the same time they should allow places to serve 24 hours a day if they want to.
Maybe so many people wouldn't binge drink at last call, and you wouldn't have the troubles with masses of drunk people trying to get home at the same time.

When I lived in Sydney Australia, they allowed bars to serve 24 hours, and this was over 20 years ago. Society didn't collapse. It was nice to be able to grab a beer after work, no matter what time that might be.

Last call.. Beer gardens.. Unable to socially drink in public.. all are rules that contribute to binge drinking IMO.

[rubecube]

BC got rid of the legislation that mandated beer gardens a few years back and, surprise, surprise, the festivals here are much more enjoyable now.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Last call.. Beer gardens.. Unable to socially drink in public.. all are rules that contribute to binge drinking IMO.

You can add minimum drink pricing to that list.