Calgary businesses launch petition calling for open liquor on 17 Avenue

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

So, this is roughly the reaction I expected when I opened the thread... Who exactly opposes this? Why hasn't it been done already? Where is the pressure coming from to maintain the status quo, anyway?

I do. And I'll admit it is 100% nimbyism on my part. 17th Ave takes on the characteristics of a human zoo as the evenings wear on. The park at 17th and 8th St. is already not a very family friendly place.

No way we need to encourage more drinking. There are enough issues with public intoxication in the area. Why world people all of a sudden drink more responsibly?

CHL, I recall you live or lived in Kensington, would you support open liquor on 10 St. or Kensington Rd? Troutman?

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[nik-]

I live in Sunnyside and I'd totally support 10th and Kensington road be a liquor friendly stroll area.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Nufy

How much of a walk would it be when you have to stop and pee every 5 minutes...

Speaking of...would there be facilities for all these sidewalk drinkers ??

Coworker used to live near 17th Ave. Being woken up by the sound of people pissing against the window of the basement suite got pretty old pretty quickly. Moved out as soon as she could.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by nik-

I live in Sunnyside and I'd totally support 10th and Kensington road be a liquor friendly stroll area.

I live there too. And agree. Mind you I think public consumption should be allowed everywhere.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by _Q_

If you can sit in the parking lot in front of a movie theatre and eat a bucket of popcorn, why on earth would you spend $5 inside?

I’m sure you’re aware that there are differences in the reasons for why people consume food and why people consume or use recreational drugs. That being the case, I don’t see what point you are trying to make.

Originally Posted by Weitz

So laws should subsidize private businesses now??? Good grief.

Who is saying that?

Originally Posted by Locke

Well....who else is enacting legislation then?

I’m not debating that. I’m sorry I’m still trying to figure out what you think the government has to do with my point about how a law change would affect businesses. I wasn’t trying to make an argument for or against changing the laws.

And there will be both a direct and indirect impact, but I think we should get on it.

^This is my position on the issue.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by nik-

I live in Sunnyside and I'd totally support 10th and Kensington road be a liquor friendly stroll area.

Don't forget Riley Park. That way calgarygeologist can toss a ball around too.

I just drink in public when I want to anyway. I've never been caught but have had friends caught at Riley Park. A ticket every few years is still cheaper than going to the bar.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Who is saying that?.

Well, you are concerned about the flames selling $10 beers. IE a law to protect their interests? I mean it's pretty self explanatory my post to your comment.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Well, you are concerned about the flames selling $10 beers. IE a law to protect their interests? I mean it's pretty self explanatory my post to your comment.

I’m not concerned for the flames’ beer sales, though I’m sure the flames are. The only argument I’m making is that a change in the law would affect their business. What part of that are you taking issue with?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I’m sure you’re aware that there are differences in the reasons for why people consume food and why people consume or use recreational drugs. That being the case, I don’t see what point you are trying to make.

I'm not sure if there is as much of a difference as you think.

If the purpose of leaving the house is to get as drunk as possible, why is the person in your example even going to a hockey game? I would also argue that there already are alternatives to spending $10 per beer at the Saddledome during the game. Why is this person currently not chugging $6 pints of beer at National before the game to save money?

And why is it that we care so much about liquor sales at one venue vs another? Is $50 spent at the Saddledome more beneficial to the economy than $30 spent at the bar next door or $12 spent at the liquor store? Maybe if people start to find alternatives, it will force certain prices down. Why is that a bad thing?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I do. And I'll admit it is 100% nimbyism on my part. 17th Ave takes on the characteristics of a human zoo as the evenings wear on. The park at 17th and 8th St. is already not a very family friendly place.

No way we need to encourage more drinking. There are enough issues with public intoxication in the area. Why world people all of a sudden drink more responsibly?

CHL, I recall you live or lived in Kensington, would you support open liquor on 10 St. or Kensington Rd? Troutman?

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What you don't want to encourage is more drunkenness. More casual drinking does not cause issues.

People will drink more responsibly because different people will be attracted to the area. You are going to increae casual drinking in the area and increase the number of people in the area. So as a whole the impact of the drunks diminishes. You could also enforce existing bylaws around public intoxication. So through increased number of people and increased enforcement of existing laws you reduce the issues that exist currently.

You could also cut it off at 9pm or so if your concern is pre-drinking.

[troutman]

Who is going to do this in the winter?

Who is going to buy a drink in a bar if you can carry your own?

[undercoverbrother]

Can't we all just use travel cups like adults?

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

So what's next? People allowed to smoke weed on the streets? Legal prostitution?

A serious question aside, can we legally smoke weed in public places like cigarettes after July 1 next year?

Pretty much. I don't see why it's any of the states business what I do with my body. Isn't that the pro-choice argument?

I think we can smoke it in public just not around schools or playgrounds.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who is going to do this in the winter?

Who is going to buy a drink in a bar if you can carry your own?

People in the bars!

Why do you go to the bar in the first place? You know you can buy beer in a liqour store already!

Are you really going to walk up and down 17th with all your friends instead of going to the bar? It's not like it's an awesome walking area! If anything I see people taking their last beer to go as they walk to a store/flames game/etc, or when walking the dog.

[Locke]

I think a few things have to be understood in regards to this.

I firmly believe in an open liquor license City-wide, hell, Nationally. But we also have to understand that such a monumental cultural shift would not come without consequences, especially during the learning curve.

The point in this instance though isnt that these business owners want to turn 17th ave into a non-stop Red Mile.

Thats not typically the point of an open liquor license, this is more of an incentive for people to stroll along 17th with their preferred beverage.

The main reason I'm a supporter of this is because I believe that our culture needs to change our perception in regards to alcohol.

The fact that we cant have a beer and play softball or have some drinks in a park after a soccer game, or just have a drink while I'm out walking my dog without risking a ticket or public outrage is asinine.

I understand that there will be abuses and every time there is I know that Mrs. Lovejoy will be right there, front and centre, to make sure its on the front page of every newspaper and broadcast loudly decrying its villainy.

An initiative such as this is going to require dedicated and patient individuals as they try and combat this culture that is largely the only type that we've ever known, but the big issue as I see it is that most of our society's problems with alcohol are self-inflicted.

Think about just going to a bar. You're in a confined space that is far enough away as to require travel (driving) with nowhere to go and nothing to do but sit and drink.

That doesnt sound like a recipe for disaster at all.

As opposed to taking that same amount of alcohol and now you're maybe consuming it over a longer period of time because you're outside and walking around with your wife/GF, kids or dog.

Anyways, I hope that kind of sums my outlook on it, I wish them the best of luck and if they get it I will almost certainly consider wandering 17th ave with my wife and a drink as a nice way to spend an afternoon.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

People in the bars!

Why do you go to the bar in the first place? You know you can buy beer in a liqour store already!

Are you really going to walk up and down 17th with all your friends instead of going to the bar? It's not like it's an awesome walking area! If anything I see people taking their last beer to go as they walk to a store/flames game/etc, or when walking the dog.

I wasn't visualizing walking around town with a drink in their hand. What would be nice is to light a campfire in Edworthy park and open a few beers or bring a flask of whiskey to warm up with when you go skating at Bowness in the winter.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Are you suggesting people will sitting on a park bench drinking beer as a genuine alternative to going to a bar that has music, food, TVs, waitresses, etc.? That they'll plan their Friday night around sharing a six-pack rather than going to National or the Ship and Anchor? I have my doubts that would be all that common. Most people who would rather share the six pack just stay home and drink.

I am absolutely one of those people. On a nice night, I'd much rather sit in a park with my own friends, a portable speaker for my own tunes, and cheaper drinks than sit inside a noisy, crowded, overpriced bar, watching the same sports highlights on repeat.

EDIT: Which is to say I'm fully in support of this idea.

[rubecube]

I'm also going to add that I was mocked endlessly for our open-alcohol laws when I was in Europe.

[troutman]

It's not perfect in Europe either. Many times I saw people puking on sidewalks and on public transport.

Besides, we can already do this with Barnoculars.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I wasn't visualizing walking around town with a drink in their hand. What would be nice is to light a campfire in Edworthy park and open a few beers or bring a flask of whiskey to warm up with when you go skating at Bowness in the winter.

.... do you not?!