Teacher's Salary Increase Possible

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ra...857/story.html

As a teacher this frustrates me. I personally do not feel that we need, nor deserve at this point, an increase in salary. In parallel neither do any of our executives downtown in the CBE (this happens regularly)! We are already brushing up against 100k a year (at the most senior levels) and in my humble opinion that is more than a fair compensation. Combined with our benefits package and retirement fund we are very lucky. To argue that we have "paid our due" under our previous contract is nonsense. We make enough money, it is time to reconnect with the public we serve and focus on benefits for the students.

All I want out of this contract negotiation is smaller class sizes. This will improve the quality of the education each student receives as well as employ a number of new teachers who are struggling to find employment. By creating more "teaching blocks" new teachers will be mentored into a system that has a terrible history of reactive planning, rather than proactive planning. We have a massive shift of administrative level positions and we need new teachers to fill those voids. However, they will also need quality mentors to aid them in the start of their career.

I wish the ATA would focus on this aspect of our contract, I don't want more money. I want my students to have more individual support, and young teachers to have employment. Shake your head ATA I don't care what our previous contracts embodied, if you pursue salary in this climate you will ostracize our public supporters. Embarrassing, I apologize.

Would you be willing to take a market adjusted decrease right now?

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I want a system where good teachers are rewarded and paid very well, and poor ones are at risk of job loss. Just like the real world.

Sweden has a system where teachers negotiate their own salaries based on performance. Schools are built with the ability to turn a profit provided they have the enrollment, it's very much like a capitalistic system. And parents are free to choose what schools they want their funding to go to via a voucher system so they can choose the best performing schools for their own children.

BBC article

Guardian Article

That's the only system I can think of that has a system where good teachers can be rewarded freely outside of a union.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

My wife is a teacher, she teaches high school math (IB and Math 31). Do you think the Principal/Vice Principals at her school (every one of whom has a phys ed degree and was a gym teacher) are likely able to judge whether she's teaching calculus correctly? I would bet a lot of money that none of them could PASS calculus.

Now, teacher's need to be evaluated in some way, and the terrible ones should be removed somehow. But getting admin to do it isn't necessarily the best way.

Your wife should go to the union to grieve that her brethren are making the same as her for less effort.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Can you imagine a company like Encana or Cenovus where they couldn't fire or discipline people? No accountability ever, you have to carry the dead weight until they leave or retire. I've watched people leave the board of education system because they couldn't do a thing to somebody with multiple (dozens of sexual harassment) complaints. They only way those people leave is if they die, they choose to or get caught raping a student.



If indeed they are good enough, they'll find something else and those slackers are still up to get dumped at point down the line. It's totally different than teachers and school staff that essentially cannot be fired.

For sure. I completely agree the habitually late and those with alcohol dependency who aren't getting help should go immediately. For actual teaching quality evaluation, I like GGGs idea better than admin evaluation. I think a couple years sample is reasonable, or you get other effects.

[malcolmk14]

Salary is pretty far down the list of my priorities. I'd like to see an initiative for smaller class sizes, and more flexibility and agency for teachers in how per-student funds are allocated.

As far as support in the classroom goes, I can see how some teachers may want that. Personally, if I have a budget to bring in resources and technology, and less bureaucracy and red tape to cut through to do any kind of experiential learning out in the community, that's way more valuable to me than having a few more hours of Ed Assistant time.

Would I take a salary cut? If it came with better working conditions and a little more freedom to decide how I do my job, in a heartbeat. But that will never happen.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ra...857/story.html

As a teacher this frustrates me. I personally do not feel that we need, nor deserve at this point, an increase in salary. In parallel neither do any of our executives downtown in the CBE (this happens regularly)! We are already brushing up against 100k a year (at the most senior levels) and in my humble opinion that is more than a fair compensation. Combined with our benefits package and retirement fund we are very lucky. To argue that we have "paid our due" under our previous contract is nonsense. We make enough money, it is time to reconnect with the public we serve and focus on benefits for the students.

All I want out of this contract negotiation is smaller class sizes. This will improve the quality of the education each student receives as well as employ a number of new teachers who are struggling to find employment. By creating more "teaching blocks" new teachers will be mentored into a system that has a terrible history of reactive planning, rather than proactive planning. We have a massive shift of administrative level positions and we need new teachers to fill those voids. However, they will also need quality mentors to aid them in the start of their career.

I wish the ATA would focus on this aspect of our contract, I don't want more money. I want my students to have more individual support, and young teachers to have employment. Shake your head ATA I don't care what our previous contracts embodied, if you pursue salary in this climate you will ostracize our public supporters. Embarrassing, I apologize.

Don't want more money? You want smaller class sizes? How does this happen? More teachers and spending more money? So in other words you want more money?I just took a 20 percent reduction in pay and my work load went up 50 percent. I am one of the lucky ones that still has a job. Maybe if I approached my boss like this it would work! I don't want more money, just more people to help me with my job? My boss would say that still costs him more money!Others will say "think of the children"! I am, Want Alberta families to be able to shelter, feed, and clothe their kids. Education means nothing if basic human needs are not met first. Families are suffering out there! Not you? Good for you, many are suffering. More money for unions to piss away that causes higher taxes especially right now is asinine.I want I want I want BS needs to stop in this economy from city workers and unions.Situation not ideal in schools? Suck it up! I work on 3 million dollar machines, I need $100,000 in parts on the shelves to do my job at all times. Got about $500 of parts on the shelves right now. Super tough to do my job. I make do!

[ranchlandsselling]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Don't want more money? You want smaller class sizes? How does this happen? More teachers and spending more money? So in other words you want more money?I just took a 20 percent reduction in pay and my work load went up 50 percent. I am one of the lucky ones that still has a job. Maybe if I approached my boss like this it would work! I don't want more money, just more people to help me with my job? My boss would say that still costs him more money!Others will say "think of the children"! I am, Want Alberta families to be able to shelter, feed, and clothe their kids. Education means nothing if basic human needs are not met first. Families are suffering out there! Not you? Good for you, many are suffering. More money for unions to piss away that causes higher taxes especially right now is asinine.I want I want I want BS needs to stop in this economy from city workers and unions.Situation not ideal in schools? Suck it up! I work on 3 million dollar machines, I need $100,000 in parts on the shelves to do my job at all times. Got about $500 of parts on the shelves right now. Super tough to do my job. I make do!

But you chose to work in the private sector. It was your choice.

These things shouldn't happen in the public sector and on top of that, while these things shouldn't happen, the employees also didn't choose to work there.

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Don't want more money? You want smaller class sizes? How does this happen? More teachers and spending more money? So in other words you want more money?I just took a 20 percent reduction in pay and my work load went up 50 percent. I am one of the lucky ones that still has a job. Maybe if I approached my boss like this it would work! I don't want more money, just more people to help me with my job? My boss would say that still costs him more money!Others will say "think of the children"! I am, Want Alberta families to be able to shelter, feed, and clothe their kids. Education means nothing if basic human needs are not met first. Families are suffering out there! Not you? Good for you, many are suffering. More money for unions to piss away that causes higher taxes especially right now is asinine.I want I want I want BS needs to stop in this economy from city workers and unions.Situation not ideal in schools? Suck it up! I work on 3 million dollar machines, I need $100,000 in parts on the shelves to do my job at all times. Got about $500 of parts on the shelves right now. Super tough to do my job. I make do!

I'm thinking that Alberta, long term, would be best served by an education system that remained consistent in terms of standards and expectations. Having a system that ebbed and flowed with the boom and bust nature of Alberta's economy would result in very uneven performance depending on the year of graduation or enrolment.

Teachers shouldn't boom in boom times, and they shouldn't bust in bust times. What benefit would be served by allowing education to rise and fall with the economic climate?

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

Would you be willing to take a market adjusted decrease right now?

This would depend on where the funds went if I did. If it meant smaller classes and more teachers, yes. That would be in the best interest of everyone involved. In fact I workd the last ear and a half at a private school in Toronto while my wife pursued her career, I took about a 40% pay cut but taught less kids in all my classes than I have in one here now that we have returned. So yes I have done so and I much preferred it. That being said, that is my situation and teachers as a whole aren't in my spot. Hence my desire for no raise requests as I think it is far more likely to go through than a roll back.

[WinnipegFan]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

Don't want more money? You want smaller class sizes? How does this happen? More teachers and spending more money? So in other words you want more money?I just took a 20 percent reduction in pay and my work load went up 50 percent. I am one of the lucky ones that still has a job. Maybe if I approached my boss like this it would work! I don't want more money, just more people to help me with my job? My boss would say that still costs him more money!Others will say "think of the children"! I am, Want Alberta families to be able to shelter, feed, and clothe their kids. Education means nothing if basic human needs are not met first. Families are suffering out there! Not you? Good for you, many are suffering. More money for unions to piss away that causes higher taxes especially right now is asinine.I want I want I want BS needs to stop in this economy from city workers and unions.Situation not ideal in schools? Suck it up! I work on 3 million dollar machines, I need $100,000 in parts on the shelves to do my job at all times. Got about $500 of parts on the shelves right now. Super tough to do my job. I make do!

First of all I am hearing that you are very frustrated with your situation right now. I am assuming this a recent frustration for you and that you are venting somewhat with your attack on my position. I can relate to that.

Since starting teaching here about ten years ago I have seen a gradual slide in funding for my students. I have now taught over 1200 students, I have coached well over 800 more, and fundraised to put another 700 through leadership camps, helped about 4 get into post-secondary that normally wouldn't have and have one letter form a student and parent recognizing my role in helping them step back from some life altering decisions. To do this job I need thousands of dollars worth of text books, I need hundreds of dollars worth of pencils and pens, I use my own laptop and projector, and I need a room that isn't falling apart. Currently I do my job with less than one book per student, I can't offer pens and pencils to those that can't afford them anymore, I can't use my own laptop on the school's server and my projector was deemed a workplace hazard. On top of that I have to ask kids to rotate from sitting on the heating vents to desks as we are waiting for my 39th and 40th student's desks to come in. So can I relate to doing a tough job on limited resources, I think I can. Do I empathize that people are suffering, absolutely. That is why I feed kids at my school, that is why I buy grad gowns and suits for students who can't afford them, that is why I spend many evenings counting money in a casino and selling god damn chocolate almonds. So do I have a family to support, not yet but I am starting one. Do I hope they have a support network of teachers that care if I fall on hard times, absolutely.

I am sorry you got so angry at my request for no more money but if you understood the context in which I work you may understand that this is a plea of frustration, not one of bravado. I don't know how to fix million dollar machines, and I respect that you can with limited materials I just hope you can give the same understanding and respect to what I do.

When I ask for smaller classes it isn't so I can work less, in fact it would be the same work just better results. It would put more Albertans to work and put more food on more tables. By no means is 10 less students per class going to make my job easier, it will make it more effective. I can stop spreading myself around to 40 and focus on improving 30. I can mentor young teachers who are starting out to have careers they can be proud of and so they can provide for their families that are struggling as they bounce from sub job to sub job, temp position to temp position. If you think I am asking for help because I am lazy then I did not communicate myself clearly, and I apologize for that. I hope I added some clarity.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by ma-skis.com

I'm thinking that Alberta, long term, would be best served by an education system that remained consistent in terms of standards and expectations. Having a system that ebbed and flowed with the boom and bust nature of Alberta's economy would result in very uneven performance depending on the year of graduation or enrolment.

Teachers shouldn't boom in boom times, and they shouldn't bust in bust times. What benefit would be served by allowing education to rise and fall with the economic climate?

What? Did teachers take a pay cut, did the union get less money? Did I say they should take less money?

You don't think spending should be controlled? Would it not be wonderful if we had one teacher per student?

Economic woes are not in the least affecting teachers. Teachers are asking for more money right now! Massive recession, yet the OP wants more money.

That money was spent during an economic boom. That money should be cut back but I am not saying that. I am saying they want even more during a crisis.

Teachers salaries in Alberta are based off an economic boom. Teacher site cost of living here! Yet when the cost of living goes down what do they say? We need more money? Cant have it both ways!

[driveway]

Someone should have paid more attention to their English teacher.

[JohnnyB]

Increases to fair salaries that match inflation are fair and stability in a public service as important as education is valuable.

As a professional in education, I would respond to a reduction in teacher salary as a result of recession by leaving Alberta and working somewhere else when times are bad. There are teaching jobs all over the world, so why hang around in Alberta if the compensation stops matching the job and the cost of living? I don't know how many would respond the same way as I would, but I hardly think Calgarians suffering through a recession would be pleased to also deal with the quality of education for their children going down due to quality teachers leaving the province.

It is in the best interest of society to keep teachers fairly compensated for their work and allow stable growth and improvement of education. Also, just because demand for business throughout Alberta is down doesn't mean that demand is similarly down for education. Not all industries should drop on principle simply because there is a recession.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by WinnipegFan

First of all I am hearing that you are very frustrated with your situation right now. I am assuming this a recent frustration for you and that you are venting somewhat with your attack on my position. I can relate to that.

Since starting teaching here about ten years ago I have seen a gradual slide in funding for my students. I have now taught over 1200 students, I have coached well over 800 more, and fundraised to put another 700 through leadership camps, helped about 4 get into post-secondary that normally wouldn't have and have one letter form a student and parent recognizing my role in helping them step back from some life altering decisions. To do this job I need thousands of dollars worth of text books, I need hundreds of dollars worth of pencils and pens, I use my own laptop and projector, and I need a room that isn't falling apart. Currently I do my job with less than one book per student, I can't offer pens and pencils to those that can't afford them anymore, I can't use my own laptop on the school's server and my projector was deemed a workplace hazard. On top of that I have to ask kids to rotate from sitting on the heating vents to desks as we are waiting for my 39th and 40th student's desks to come in. So can I relate to doing a tough job on limited resources, I think I can. Do I empathize that people are suffering, absolutely. That is why I feed kids at my school, that is why I buy grad gowns and suits for students who can't afford them, that is why I spend many evenings counting money in a casino and selling god damn chocolate almonds. So do I have a family to support, not yet but I am starting one. Do I hope they have a support network of teachers that care if I fall on hard times, absolutely.

I am sorry you got so angry at my request for no more money but if you understood the context in which I work you may understand that this is a plea of frustration, not one of bravado. I don't know how to fix million dollar machines, and I respect that you can with limited materials I just hope you can give the same understanding and respect to what I do.

When I ask for smaller classes it isn't so I can work less, in fact it would be the same work just better results. It would put more Albertans to work and put more food on more tables. By no means is 10 less students per class going to make my job easier, it will make it more effective. I can stop spreading myself around to 40 and focus on improving 30. I can mentor young teachers who are starting out to have careers they can be proud of and so they can provide for their families that are struggling as they bounce from sub job to sub job, temp position to temp position. If you think I am asking for help because I am lazy then I did not communicate myself clearly, and I apologize for that. I hope I added some clarity.

I am a CNC machine operator/programmer. I work on machines that cost over 3 million dollars. I need to provide my own tools at work. Currently I have about $25,000 invested in tools. That number rises daily.

So piss off when you talk about costs and expense from your job. Any thing you do you write off! I try to write off my expenses and get grief, teachers though no issue! Screw off when you talk tools of the trade, its not even close!

You want to clothe kids for grad and prom? I could care less. Dress a monkey in a suit for all I care! Good on you for dressing a kid! Educate the kid instead of dressing him! Clothes don't make a man.

Yet apparently you think that!

[boogerz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Increases to fair salaries that match inflation are fair and stability in a public service as important as education is valuable.

As a professional in education, I would respond to a reduction in teacher salary as a result of recession by leaving Alberta and working somewhere else when times are bad. There are teaching jobs all over the world, so why hang around in Alberta if the compensation stops matching the job and the cost of living? I don't know how many would respond the same way as I would, but I hardly think Calgarians suffering through a recession would be pleased to also deal with the quality of education for their children going down due to quality teachers leaving the province.

It is in the best interest of society to keep teachers fairly compensated for their work and allow stable growth and improvement of education. Also, just because demand for business throughout Alberta is down doesn't mean that demand is similarly down for education. Not all industries should drop on principle simply because there is a recession.

Couldn't have said it better. A small COLA now is less expensive than the future cost of fixing the implications of disgruntled and/or lower quality teachers.

Likewise with the other sectors that public sector has their hands in.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I am a CNC machine operator/programmer. I work on machines that cost over 3 million dollars. I need to provide my own tools at work. Currently I have about $25,000 invested in tools. That number rises daily.

So piss off when you talk about costs and expense from your job. Any thing you do you write off! I try to write off my expenses and get grief, teachers though no issue! Screw off when you talk tools of the trade, its not even close!

You want to clothe kids for grad and prom? I could care less. Dress a monkey in a suit for all I care! Good on you for dressing a kid! Educate the kid instead of dressing him! Clothes don't make a man.

Yet apparently you think that!

Dude. That is some bitter aimless shiz.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I am a CNC machine operator/programmer. I work on machines that cost over 3 million dollars. I need to provide my own tools at work. Currently I have about $25,000 invested in tools. That number rises daily.

So piss off when you talk about costs and expense from your job. Any thing you do you write off! I try to write off my expenses and get grief, teachers though no issue! Screw off when you talk tools of the trade, its not even close!

You want to clothe kids for grad and prom? I could care less. Dress a monkey in a suit for all I care! Good on you for dressing a kid! Educate the kid instead of dressing him! Clothes don't make a man.

Yet apparently you think that!

Edit.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I am a CNC machine operator/programmer. I work on machines that cost over 3 million dollars. I need to provide my own tools at work. Currently I have about $25,000 invested in tools. That number rises daily.

Good introduction, but try varying your sentence length. Sentences can be combined using commas or semi-colons, you'll find that varying your sentence length makes your writing flow a little better and will make it more effective.

So piss off when you talk about costs and expenses from for your job. Any thing Anything you do purchase you can write off! I try to write off my expenses and get grief,; teachers though have no issue! Screw off when you talk tools of the trade, its it's not even close!

You want to clothe kids for grad and or prom? I couldn't care less. Dress a monkey in a suit for all I care! Good on you for dressing a kid! Educate the kid instead of dressing him! Clothes don't make a the man., Yyet apparently you think that they do!

There's a lot of passion in this piece, and it's clear you have done some research into the topic. However there are still some problems with your sentence structure and grammar which are impeding you getting your point across in the most effective manner.

B-

[taco.vidal]

Originally Posted by driveway

There's a lot of passion in this piece, and it's clear you have done some research into the topic. However there are still some problems with your sentence structure and grammar which are impeding you getting your point across in the most effective manner.

B-

Lol. I understood what he meant and Im sure most, if not all others did as well.

You come across poorly.

[Sliver]

Yeah, that was pretty rude.