[Rumour] Dreger: Flames haven't officially put Russell on the trade market yet

[Harry Lime]

Hmmm. Trade Russell for whatever is on the table right now, and pick up Erhoff for free? (Assuming he gets past the Oilers and Leafs)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

Doughty??

But ya as much as I used to love Regher. That role is a bottom pairing role. Second pairing has to have some offense.

Some, maybe. But a guy like Alzner has more points than Russell and is a way better defender.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Some, maybe. But a guy like Alzner has more points than Russell and is a way better defender.

People are starting to refer to Alzner as a possible #2/#3

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

People are starting to refer to Alzner as a possible #2/#3

And he's a shutdown guy, so your question is answered, I guess.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by DJones

Is a shutdown top 4 defender even a thing anymore?

The Flames don't play that style.

Yes. It's just not a monster crushing everything that moves anymore. It's a Hamonic, Hjalmarsson, Tanev, Alzner, (I could go on)

The Flames play a style suited to the personnel they have. A bunch of small guys. The team brass has been telling the world they want to get bigger for the past 3 years.

This team would be disgustingly good with a player like Hamonic. It would be too much money too have that much skill in the top 4 though.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

How about Russell at $4m x 4yrs, is contingent on exiting Wideman before July 1.

Would that change your opinion?

Probably but I would have to know for a fact Wides would be gone by then. I don't think it would be needed but my concern is on signing the future Stars. One I don't like ever being capped out, a rainy day fund is smart to have for those "Just In case" scenarios.

Assuming:

• Gaudreau = $8 @ 8
• Monahan = $6 @ 6 (Barkov Contract)
• Ramo or Hiller = $4 @ 1
• Jones = $2 ($2.5) @ 2
• Total = +$20M
• Subtract Hudler and either one of Hiller or Ramo (whichever wasn't signed) is roughly ~ $8
• Final = ~$12M

Russel is better than Wideman so if you could move Wides and sign Russell at $4 @ 4 sure, that'd be $1.25 in savings. We're looking at needing about ~$11M in cap space but if I'm reading correctly we only have ~$10M in cap space at the TDL and only ~$3M at the end of the season. (Don't forget Gio's contract kicks in at the end of the year and that's another extra $2.23M against the cap)


All of this is per General Fanager - Calgary Flames So please if I did some math wrong or read something incorrectly please correct me. I just can't see us having room for Russell at $4 @ 4.

*EDIT*Did some extra calculations and we would have about $4M left over IF we assume Wideman was gone and none of our RFA's were signed, these include Colborne, Jooris, & Granlund, also Nakladal is UFA so unless you don't want to retain him he will cost some too.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

And he's a shutdown guy, so your question is answered, I guess.

I don't watch him enough to intelligently analyze him but are you claiming he is a Smid/Engelland level offense?

18 points isn't to bad. Capitals defense don't get that many points.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

I don't watch him enough to intelligently analyze him but are you claiming he is a Smid/Engelland level offense?

18 points isn't to bad. Capitals defense don't get that many points.

No - what I'm saying is he's defence first and no one is thinking he's going to be a point getter. There's no rule that a shutdown guy has to have zero offence. If they make it to the offensive zone, I would expect some points.

Alzner has a Russell level offence, with a much higher defensive ability. So do a lot of other defencemen, a lot of whom are paid less than what he will seek.

Also, I'm counting on one of the several good young defencemen in the system to make it in the next two years.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No - what I'm saying is he's defence first and no one is thinking he's going to be a point getter. There's no rule that a shutdown guy has to have zero offence. If they make it to the offensive zone, I would expect some points.

Alzner has a Russell level offence, with a much higher defensive ability. So do a lot of other defencemen, a lot of whom are paid less than what he will seek.

Also, I'm counting on one of the several good young defencemen in the system to make it in the next two years.

If you are a shut down defender with offense in my opinion that jumps you to a #2/#3 almost immediately. Having two #1s on our team may have upped your expectations a bit.

I think a #4 is essentially a good bottom pairing defender with some skating ability and offense.

If we can get an upgrade on Russell for cheaper then I am 100% for that.

With how the market is I don't see that happening though.

Who would you have in mind? Like the market for Russell seems decent and in your opinion he's a weak #4. Where are these strong number fours that we can get?

We have to fill 2 years before our prospects are ready.

[PeteMoss]

Russell is a 5/6 guy being forced into a top 4 role.

If you look at his history, he was an average guy (or better) in Columbus and St.Louis where played less than 15 minutes per game.

He comes to Calgary - plays 18+ minutes a game and is terrible.

Spoiler!

[Harry Lime]

^
What concerns me most of all is that the Zorso Percentage Relatiziac score has just plummeted.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

^
What concerns me most of all is that the Zorso Percentage Relatiziac score has just plummeted.

I think that means he is starting in the defensive zone a lot more than he has in previous years.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

^
What concerns me most of all is that the Zorso Percentage Relatiziac score has just plummeted.

Cheeky

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Russell is a 5/6 guy being forced into a top 4 role.

If you look at his history, he was an average guy (or better) in Columbus and St.Louis where played less than 15 minutes per game.

He comes to Calgary - plays 18+ minutes a game and is terrible.

Spoiler!

the way you're presenting it isn't quite helpful, because he's on a different team. Only his relative possession numbers help.

Here:

Spoiler!

Nothing about your premise changed though. He's a #5 defenseman. That's where he's had any real success.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Would you pay Chris Butler 4 million a year too?

Come on man, are you saying Butler is in the same calibre of player as Russell?

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Would you pay Chris Butler 4 million a year too?

I would, but not as a defenseman. I'd hire him in a bakery, because he can generate more turnovers than the Pillsbury factory.

[_Q_]

Russell was the golden child last year and now he's the new whipping boy?

For the record, I never thought he was as good as he was made out to be last season, but he's not nearly as bad as some think he is. He's a capable #4 and an excellent #5/6 in my mind, nothing more than that.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Come on man, are you saying Butler is in the same calibre of player as Russell?

I'd say they're the same type of player with the same strengths and weaknesses. Russell is somewhat better but somewhat better then Chris Butler is a low bar to clear.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I'd say they're the same type of player with the same strengths and weaknesses. Russell is somewhat better but somewhat better then Chris Butler is a low bar to clear.

Not a fan of Russell now, wasn't when the Flames picked him up but he's a clear notch above Chris Butler any way you slice it. Russell can comfortably play in this league on a bottom pairing, can step up when needed to fill in as well. Butler can't do any of that. Butler was cut loose from the Flames and barely managed to get another NHL contract, he's toiling in the AHL now. Russell is going to get a darn good deal if he ends up UFA this summer.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Russell is going to get a darn good deal if he ends up UFA this summer.

Probably. I just also think whoever is silly enough to give him that deal will end up regretting it sooner rather then later and I'd rather that not be us.