[Rumour] Dreger: Flames haven't officially put Russell on the trade market yet

[DJones]

Originally Posted by FeyWest

I definitely want to move him at that contract, can't afford that without moving one of Wideman, Smid or Engelland. We have huge contracts to sign next year in Johnny and Monny, remember Gio's new contract kicks in next year too. I like Russell I just wish he was less frustrating as a player, if we can keep him at a similar contract to what he's at now I'm ok with that but I think anything higher we have to move him.

Russell at 4M isn't outrageous.

Smid at 3.75
Wideman at 5.5
Engellend at 3

Those contracts are ridiculous.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DJones

Russell at 4M isn't outrageous.

Smid at 3.75
Wideman at 5.5
Engellend at 3

Those contracts are ridiculous.

Russell at 4m might not be outrageous but it's still another multi million dollar contract to a depth player that the Flames can't afford, largely due to the existence of several others already on the roster. No need to add to the pile of questionable/bad contracts.

For the record, I think Smid @ 3.5m is about as bad as Russell @ 4m. Russell is only marginally better than Smid in my eyes.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with most of that and have made a lot of the same arguments (eg. about not giving Sven/Wotherspoon/Wolf/et al minutes and how Hartley saw them in practice). 1:45 just seemed a bit extreme to me.

Not a very big deal though. Nakladl, though potentially useful is not a long term prospect.

I do agree 1:45 was disappointing, but I'm not going to sail in the same boat as those who just seem to to be outraged and Hartley is the worst coach ever for it. I'm disappointed yes, but more so due to excitement to seeing how a new face will perform not because this is going to set a precedent for future Europeans. I still look forward to seeing NakCity I have big expectations for him.

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by DJones

Russell at 4M isn't outrageous.

Smid at 3.75
Wideman at 5.5
Engellend at 3

Those contracts are ridiculous.

Would you pay Chris Butler 4 million a year too?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Russell at 4m might not be outrageous but it's still another multi million dollar contract to a depth player that the Flames can't afford, largely due to the existence of several others already on the roster. No need to add to the pile of questionable/bad contracts.

For the record, I think Smid @ 3.5m is about as bad as Russell @ 4m. Russell is only marginally better than Smid in my eyes.

Depending on roles, I might prefer a healthy Smid over Russell. It seems to me that Smid is positioned to succeed with his skill set and where he plays, while Russell is not.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Russell at 4m might not be outrageous but it's still another multi million dollar contract to a depth player that the Flames can't afford, largely due to the existence of several others already on the roster. No need to add to the pile of questionable/bad contracts.

For the record, I think Smid @ 3.5m is about as bad as Russell @ 4m. Russell is only marginally better than Smid in my eyes.

Defensively they are probably a wash but offensively and in the neutral zone Russell is way better.

Smid, Engellend, and Wideman are all off the books after next year. I don't see any of them returning.

So yes, the cap will be tight next year but after that I think we may regret not having Russell.

[saillias]

Smid deal was fine until he started having the neck problems. It was seen as a good contract for a solid top 4 shutdown defender.

If I'm paying a #4 four million+, he better be Johnny Boychuk/Nick Leddy quality.

Russell is just one year younger than Smid fwiw.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by FeyWest

I definitely want to move him at that contract, can't afford that without moving one of Wideman, Smid or Engelland. We have huge contracts to sign next year in Johnny and Monny, remember Gio's new contract kicks in next year too. I like Russell I just wish he was less frustrating as a player, if we can keep him at a similar contract to what he's at now I'm ok with that but I think anything higher we have to move him.

How about Russell at $4m x 4yrs, is contingent on exiting Wideman before July 1.

Would that change your opinion?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

Defensively they are probably a wash but offensively and in the neutral zone Russell is way better.

Smid, Engellend, and Wideman are all off the books after next year. I don't see any of them returning.

So yes, the cap will be tight next year but after that I think we may regret not having Russell.

I think Smid is better defensively, both at the net and on the boards and actually has a better breakout pass. When Russell has time and space to skate, he can get the puck out well and probably make a better overall play, but he too often has that panicked puck up the boards or to the other D (who's already covered). I've seen him hang Wideman up on the latter (and then Wideman gets criticized for the giveaway).

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DJones

Defensively they are probably a wash but offensively and in the neutral zone Russell is way better.

Smid, Engellend, and Wideman are all off the books after next year. I don't see any of them returning.

So yes, the cap will be tight next year but after that I think we may regret not having Russell.

I think Smid is better defensively and more suited to a bottom pairing role. I see Russell as a classic tweener (#4/5) guy. He is better offensively but he is a wreck defensively unless he's matched against the other teams bottom 6. Smid at least is serviceable in his own zone, even against good players IMO.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Russell at 4m might not be outrageous but it's still another multi million dollar contract to a depth player that the Flames can't afford, largely due to the existence of several others already on the roster. No need to add to the pile of questionable/bad contracts.

For the record, I think Smid @ 3.5m is about as bad as Russell @ 4m. Russell is only marginally better than Smid in my eyes.

Exactly, due to the situation we are in at the present moment and what needs to be done still, I'm willing to sacrifice Russell if he isn't able to be signed at <$3M. We have to make a decision, like I stated in my post unless we move one of the other 3 (which is highly unlikely but you never know) I don't want Russell at $4M, I'd much rather take my chances at seeing what we have in Nakladal and our other D prospects.

Priority has to be on getting Gaudreau and Monahan (Bennett the next year) signed, who we may need the cap flexibility to sign I'd rather not take the chance.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by saillias

Smid deal was fine until he started having the neck problems. It was seen as a good contract for a solid top 4 shutdown defender.

If I'm paying a #4 four million+, he better be Johnny Boychuk/Nick Leddy quality.

Russell is just one year younger than Smid fwiw.

Is a shutdown top 4 defender even a thing anymore?

The Flames don't play that style.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by FeyWest

Exactly, due to the situation we are in at the present moment and what needs to be done still, I'm willing to sacrifice Russell if he isn't able to be signed at <$3M. We have to make a decision, like I stated in my post unless we move one of the other 3 (which is highly unlikely but you never know) I don't want Russell at $4M, I'd much rather take my chances at seeing what we have in Nakladal and our other D prospects.

Priority has to be on getting Gaudreau and Monahan (Bennett the next year) signed, who we may need the cap flexibility to sign I'd rather not take the chance.

Re-signing Bennett isn't a big concern. Our salary cap situation looks great in 2017-2018.

Stajan is the only questionable contract. Bouma maybe 0.5M to much but not a deal breaker.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DJones

Is a shutdown top 4 defender even a thing anymore?

The Flames don't play that style.

Do you mean a guy who doesn't score as well? Like an Alzner?

Or a guy like Doughty?

[Tacopuck]

Thank goodness the NHL hires all of it scouting and managing talent from CP, otherwise no team would ever make smart decisions!

Wait what do you mean no-one from CP has been hired by an NHL team?

If only there was a reason for that......

[MoreDrank]

Originally Posted by DJones

Defensively they are probably a wash but offensively and in the neutral zone Russell is way better.

Smid, Engellend, and Wideman are all off the books after next year. I don't see any of them returning.

So yes, the cap will be tight next year but after that I think we may regret not having Russell.

Being free of ALL those contracts is the best possible scenario and it'll take until the end of next year barring some miracle move to move them.

Russell at 2.2 mil is bad but serviceable if Hartley actually gave him the ice time he can handle. But Russell at 4 mil a year with term is horrific. Having a local guy isn't worth that.

There are cheaper and better defensemen out there. Heck, Christian Ehrhoff hit the waiver wire today. He's better than Russell by a country mile and half the price.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Do you mean a guy who doesn't score as well? Like an Alzner?

Or a guy like Doughty?

Doughty??

But ya as much as I used to love Regher. That role is a bottom pairing role. Second pairing has to have some offense.

[Strange Brew]

Up until now, I have been of the belief that Flames should trade Russell. He is their most valuable trade chip at the deadline and would bring the highest return. The team as constructed is simply not good enough so losing him would not be a big deal.

I am starting to change my thinking. I had always thought Gio, Brodie and Hamilton would be our big 3. But I am no longer convinced Hamilton will be ready for that role next year. After a horrible start he has settled down, but still makes some bad defensive gaffes. He shows flashes but still needs to jump up and earn more ice time. Russell played 5 minutes more than him last night again.

Trading Russell means we would need to find a top 3 guy for next year. Those are very hard to find. You might argue that Hartley overplays Russell and that, in fact, Hamilton is the better player today. I don't see it based on the games I watch though.

To me Wideman is not part of the equation here. He is not part of the Flames long term plans regardless and will be traded as soon as practical, which may not be until next years deadline.

Everything hinges on Hamilton IMO. He is currently their highest paid d-man (until Gio's deal kicks in) and is #5 in ice time. How confident are we he can be ready for a much bigger role next year?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Up until now, I have been of the belief that Flames should trade Russell. He is their most valuable trade chip at the deadline and would bring the highest return. The team as constructed is simply not good enough so losing him would not be a big deal.

I am starting to change my thinking. I had always thought Gio, Brodie and Hamilton would be our big 3. But I am no longer convinced Hamilton will be ready for that role next year. After a horrible start he has settled down, but still makes some bad defensive gaffes. He shows flashes but still needs to jump up and earn more ice time. Russell played 5 minutes more than him last night again.

Trading Russell means we would need to find a top 3 guy for next year. Those are very hard to find. You might argue that Hartley overplays Russell and that, in fact, Hamilton is the better player today. I don't see it based on the games I watch though.

To me Wideman is not part of the equation here. He is not part of the Flames long term plans regardless and will be traded as soon as practical, which may not be until next years deadline.

Everything hinges on Hamilton IMO. He is currently their highest paid d-man (until Gio's deal kicks in) and is #5 in ice time. How confident are we he can be ready for a much bigger role next year?

I'm pretty confident. I think he's already the third best defenceman by quite a bit, and has been for a dozen games. Even last year Brodie was making some pretty big gaffes (though with some very nice play as well, and definitely farther along than Hamilton at the same point).

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by DJones

Russell at 4M isn't outrageous.

Smid at 3.75
Wideman at 5.5
Engellend at 3

Those contracts are ridiculous.

So continue handing out stupid contracts? That'll help.