Notes from Oct 19 Practice: Colborne returns. Ramo next starter. Ferland missing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So you are dissecting an indirect quote from Hartley to prove what you think Hartley inferred from the comment.

Apparently I'm not allowed to draw any conclusions from facts, but you are able to draw conclusions out of pure speculation.

I hope you don't talk like Sherlock Holmes in real life. It comes off as very snooty and is overkill for hockey forum chat. Just because you type like a writer from the Victorian period doesn't mean your opinions are facts.

Chill out. Hartley's actions make pretty clear what his intent was. The only clear fact is that Hartley is playing a two goalie rotation through the first few games of the season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So you are dissecting an indirect quote from Hartley to prove what you think Hartley inferred from the comment.

No. I am taking Hartley at his word when he says that Ortio is no. 3 on the depth chart, and extrapolating from that available information the rationale behind the rotation that we have observed to this point.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Apparently I'm not allowed to draw any conclusions from facts, but you are able to draw conclusions out of pure speculation.

What facts? You are the one who has claimed:
· that the wrong message is being sent to the team.
· that Hartley and his coaches are disingenuously ignoring the "always earned, never given" team mantra.
· that abstaining from making a goaltending change will result in a continuing mire of mediocrity.
· that Hartley's "win and you're in" goalie rotation was always intended to include all three goalies.

You have made these claims from nothing more than watching the current two goalie rotation, and from the fact that there are three goalies on the roster.

And you accuse me of making assertions from inferences?!

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

...Just because you type like a writer from the Victorian period doesn't mean your opinions are facts.

Yes, it does.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Hartley prefers his veterans and won't play Ortio until Treliving forces him to.

He does?

He won't?

[dammage79]

I'm not certain I like the stubbornness Hartley's coaching staff is displaying when it comes to the goalies and letting Ortio rot on the sidelines. It is the kids after all you rely on to give the roster a boost.

Hopefully this is the last straw if the Flames lose.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

He does?

He won't?

My apologies. Should have noted that this is entirely my opinion. I'll edit my comment.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

It was either that one or the OT win that Hiller played in. 2 good (not great, good) performances out of 5 games.

It is no coincidence that the two best games the Flames have played this season have been on the road. I bet if they had a schedule similar to how it played out last year, this team's record would be better.

[agulati]

We are still only 5 games into the season. People need to chill out over here.
Yes the Flames haven't looked good. Yes we only have 1 win.
But I will trust Hartley with his decisions about the goaltending. It is easy for a young goalie to lose his confidence especially early on in his career. Flames need to sort things out up front and play a solid game. We do not want to have ruined goalies like our neighbors up north.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Fact: Neither Ramo or Hiller have been very good.
Fact: Both Ramo and Hiller have made highlight reel saves.
Fact: Both Ramo and Hiller have allowed ugly gross goals at inopportune moments.
Fact: Ortio is much younger, and at this point, seems to have more upside.
Fact: Ramo and Hiller are both UFAs after this season.
Fact: Both Hartley and Treliving have both stated they hate a 3 goalie system.
Fact: Flames do not go on the road for more than 3 games until Nov 10th.

These are the facts as I see them - with Ortio's 'upside' perhaps being more a possibility than a fact.

Why isn't Ortio in?

Could it just be that Ramo and Hiller have both been better in practice than Ortio? Could it just be that Hartley (as most coaches do) just prefer the vets? Could it be that both Ramo and Hiller have looked fairly good but have 'screwed up' some and allowed a few bad goals, and are being given a bit of leeway to shake off the rust? Could it be as simple as having a mandate in place by Treliving stating that Ramo and Hiller need to play and that Hartley has to figure out which goalie to keep? Could it be that there is a mandate from Treliving that both Ramo and Hiller have to keep playing until a trade is worked out for one of them, rather than have their stock or even merely whatever interest there may be in one/both of them from plummeting?

We all would like to see Ortio. That is probably another 'fact'. Why isn't it happening?

I - nor probably anyone else on this board - has the adequate insight into this team to say why it isn't happening. I personally didn't think Ortio would get a game until one of Ramo or Hiller was traded, unless the Flames got blown out consecutively in games.

What I do 'know' is that there is some plan in place, and since watching the new management take over the team and seeing what Hartley has been doing in the last couple of years, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that what we are seeing is in fact in the best interests of this club. The last 1.5 seasons have provided me with a high level of confidence that both management and coaching are at a high level, and I therefore trust that they are actually doing the right things here with respect to the 3 goalies.

We can definitely disagree on moves - management and coaching has been VERY good, but I doubt there is anything remotely close to a perfectly run club. What I vehemently disagree with is a few posts in the last few pages completely blasting the team for not doing what they personally think should be happening, and completely overreacting.

Patience. Ortio will get a good amount of games in this season.

Also, as someone else has mentioned, there is another thing to really consider. If one of the goalies goes down post-trade (Ramo or Hiller), it is a stretch to think that Gillies is capable of playing in the NHL at a high enough level. We may indeed be looking back at this time and missing it somewhat. Ortio - though I think he is going to be a very capable starter in this league - also has a relatively small sample size. Last year may not have been the 'norm' for him, and he may be terrible long-run.

Nobody knows anything for sure about anything at the moment. While it is fine to start speculating and even disagreeing with management, I just think some posters have been overreacting substantially. Just my two cents.

[dammage79]

Aside from goaltending, I am more than okay with Ferland going mising for a while. Either to the farm or to the press box for some popcorn. I don't expect Colborne to really ramp things up jst yet but he will be a welcome sight back on the roster. Now we await Brodie.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Aside from goaltending, I am more than okay with Ferland going mising for a while. Either to the farm or to the press box for some popcorn. I don't expect Colborne to really ramp things up jst yet but he will be a welcome sight back on the roster. Now we await Brodie.

Who do you want them to play in Ferland's place?

Personally I hope Colborne takes Bollig's spot.

[442scotty]

Granlund took Ferlands place in practice today. If colborne is ready then I predict Granlund goes back to the A and Bollig or Raymond sits

[FBI]

Ferland hasn't been great but he hasn't been that bad and has certainly been better than most of our vets.. Got his first point and has been hitting. I felt both him and Bennett are coming on.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FBI

Ferland hasn't been great but he hasn't been that bad and has certainly been better than most of our vets.. Got his first point and has been hitting. I felt both him and Bennett are coming on.

I agree, surprised by some of the dislike for his game floating around.

He has shown flashes of the combination of size and skill that make him so valuable.

Think the expectations of him were a little too high to start the season though. Still needs some time to learn the NHL game but will be good once he gets his feat under him.

Same as with Bennett, once he gets that first goal this year I think things will open up for him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Fact: Neither Ramo or Hiller have been very good.
Fact: Both Ramo and Hiller have made highlight reel saves.
Fact: Both Ramo and Hiller have allowed ugly gross goals at inopportune moments.
Fact: Ortio is much younger, and at this point, seems to have more upside.
Fact: Ramo and Hiller are both UFAs after this season.
Fact: Both Hartley and Treliving have both stated they hate a 3 goalie system.
Fact: Flames do not go on the road for more than 3 games until Nov 10th.

These are the facts as I see them - with Ortio's 'upside' perhaps being more a possibility than a fact.

Why isn't Ortio in?

Could it just be that Ramo and Hiller have both been better in practice than Ortio? Could it just be that Hartley (as most coaches do) just prefer the vets? Could it be that both Ramo and Hiller have looked fairly good but have 'screwed up' some and allowed a few bad goals, and are being given a bit of leeway to shake off the rust? Could it be as simple as having a mandate in place by Treliving stating that Ramo and Hiller need to play and that Hartley has to figure out which goalie to keep? Could it be that there is a mandate from Treliving that both Ramo and Hiller have to keep playing until a trade is worked out for one of them, rather than have their stock or even merely whatever interest there may be in one/both of them from plummeting?

We all would like to see Ortio. That is probably another 'fact'. Why isn't it happening?

I - nor probably anyone else on this board - has the adequate insight into this team to say why it isn't happening. I personally didn't think Ortio would get a game until one of Ramo or Hiller was traded, unless the Flames got blown out consecutively in games.

What I do 'know' is that there is some plan in place, and since watching the new management take over the team and seeing what Hartley has been doing in the last couple of years, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that what we are seeing is in fact in the best interests of this club. The last 1.5 seasons have provided me with a high level of confidence that both management and coaching are at a high level, and I therefore trust that they are actually doing the right things here with respect to the 3 goalies.

We can definitely disagree on moves - management and coaching has been VERY good, but I doubt there is anything remotely close to a perfectly run club. What I vehemently disagree with is a few posts in the last few pages completely blasting the team for not doing what they personally think should be happening, and completely overreacting.

Patience. Ortio will get a good amount of games in this season.

Also, as someone else has mentioned, there is another thing to really consider. If one of the goalies goes down post-trade (Ramo or Hiller), it is a stretch to think that Gillies is capable of playing in the NHL at a high enough level. We may indeed be looking back at this time and missing it somewhat. Ortio - though I think he is going to be a very capable starter in this league - also has a relatively small sample size. Last year may not have been the 'norm' for him, and he may be terrible long-run.

Nobody knows anything for sure about anything at the moment. While it is fine to start speculating and even disagreeing with management, I just think some posters have been overreacting substantially. Just my two cents.

I agree with everything you wrote, plus one more fact to add: Hartley stated that Ortio was number 3 on the depth chart. Unless he was lying, he thinks the other two are better, based on what he is looking at.

[sureLoss]

Conroy on 960 says Smid could come back any day now. Just a matter of how he feels in practice.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I agree with everything you wrote, plus one more fact to add: Hartley stated that Ortio was number 3 on the depth chart. Unless he was lying, he thinks the other two are better, based on what he is looking at.

Yes, true. I also forgot to add the fact that Hartley won the Jack Adams, and at least deserves a little bit of patience - not to mention the benefit of the doubt - beyond the first handful of games.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Conroy on 960 says Smid could come back any day now. Just a matter of how he feels in practice.

Kulak will be heading to Cali right quick then.

[flames_fan13]

Anyone know if Smid can go to Stockton for a conditioning stint? Would figure it's going to take a week or two at least to get him game ready. Considering he hasn't played a game since January, I would suspect it would be better for him to get his timing and feel of the game back in Stockton.

[FBI]

Too bad Stockton never plays any games..

[saillias]

Originally Posted by flames_fan13

Anyone know if Smid can go to Stockton for a conditioning stint? Would figure it's going to take a week or two at least to get him game ready. Considering he hasn't played a game since January, I would suspect it would be better for him to get his timing and feel of the game back in Stockton.

I really hope so. The last thing this team needs is a slow vet just coming back from long-term injury.