Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd9

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by BlackWallStreet

I thought billins wasn't part of flames organization any longer??

He signed with CSKA Moscow but we gave him a qualifying offer and thus retain his NHL rights.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/06/30...calgary-flames

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You can do it any time. I am not saying to trade them for veterans. Trade them for draft picks or younger prospects.

For example, there is a diminishing chance that a forward not playing in the NHL at 23 years of age will ever become a full-time NHLer. If we have prospects approaching that age that would potentially make another team but is far down the call-up list for us, it's in both parties best interests to move on.

Guess I needed a little bit more elaboration .

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You can do it any time. I am not saying to trade them for veterans. Trade them for draft picks or younger prospects.

For example, there is a diminishing chance that a forward not playing in the NHL at 23 years of age will ever become a full-time NHLer. If we have prospects approaching that age that would potentially make another team but is far down the call-up list for us, it's in both parties best interests to move on.

And you see examples of it all the time.

Linden Vey was a top prospect for L.A. but couldn't get a chance due to their forward depth.

Gets traded to Vancouver where he gets a chance at top 9 minutes, and the Kings add another top prospect in the draft.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by fotze

Is there a point where we have too many prospects? Can only graduate 3 per year max it seems.

Players that could play in the NHL next year:
Gaudreau
Baertschi
Poirier
Granlund
Wotherspoon
Reinhart
Arnold
Agostino
Ferland
Hanowski
van Brabant
Sieloff
Billins
Knight
Cundari

Is there a point where we hold players back and they get disenfranchised? Or am I assuming they are better than they really are?

I'm not concern about the defensemen prospects getting a chance. Only Wotherspoon has a legitimate chance on playing a lot of NHL games this season. Sieloff really needs a full healthy season in the AHL before they consider calling him up. It's starting to get hard to call Cundari a prospect anymore. He is looking more like a career AHLer with the occassional call-up if the NHL club has a couple of injuries. The Flames probably will/should get another NHL calibre defenseman before the season starts.

Same goes for goalies, since Ortio is the only legitimate goalie prospect capable of being called up.

I'm more worried about the forward group getting a fair shot in the NHL line-up. I believe Reinhart and Granlund has earned the right to be in the NHL line-up unless they prove otherwise. I think Gaudreau will/should earn a spot as well. Bennett doesn't really have a chance imo because of those three and all the NHL one-way deals. Bennett should go back to junior anyway so big deal on that front, but there are 5 or so other forwards who could earn the chance to be in the NHL line-up as well. I don't really like having to hope/wait for injuries so some of the Flames legitimate prospects get a chance to prove themselves.

[Imported_Aussie]

We might be at a point where we need a run-off poll with Gillies and Ortio - not much separating these guys!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

If I'm honest, I didn't know there's much he can do in college hockey on a defensive team to get me excited. Too many unknowns for me

Are they a defensive team?

I took a look at the stats and there's not that much of a difference, relatively speaking, between Abby and Providence last year in terms of shot suppression... Providence gave up 30.513 shots per game and Abbotsford gave up 33.224. That's less then a shot per period difference.

[djsFlames]

It's been decided (well sort of..30%), so I'll let it go. But I wanted to put my thoughts in there first.

There are probably 29 GMs out there that see more value in scooping up Gillies and Ortio over Reinhart. Perhaps I personally underrate him but watching him up here with the club he didn't look like a guy I'd put in the company of the 1st rounders ranked just ahead of him. Don't see any top end skill, just a guy who could be a smart, tough nosed 3rd liner, but I'd never place those kinds of guys ahead of our future in goal. Do any believe he's stepped up his game to the point where his ceilling/projection can be reconsidered? From what I've seen he's a surer thing now, but nothing more than he was going to be before. Anyways, going to leave it at that.

Also..post above, you call it "whining" when it's hardly that. I'm calling it as it is. All but Wotherspoon have been forwards thus far, hence the 'hard on'. If you can't handle a little debate then why are you on here in the first place? If we all just agreed with each other there'd be no use for a ####ing forum. At least I'm attempting to make these poll threads interesting. Which leads me to believe that you're the one whining, since you can't get with the program, and instead are taking offence for others since I don't agree with them, when most of them don't give a damn, and if anything, probably enjoy the discussion.

[DOOM]

Ortio!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

There are probably 29 GMs out there that see more value in scooping up Gillies and Ortio over Reinhart. Perhaps I personally underrate him but watching him up here with the club he didn't look like a guy I'd put in the company of the 1st rounders ranked just ahead of him. Don't see any top end skill, just a guy who could be a smart, tough nosed 3rd liner, but I'd never place those kinds of guys ahead of our future in goal. Do any believe he's stepped up his game to the point where his ceilling/projection can be reconsidered? From what I've seen he's a surer thing now, but nothing more than he was going to be before. Anyways, going to leave it at that.

Great points. I agree, our goalies may be more valuable in trade than Reinhart. It's too bad you don't leave at that more often.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Also..post above, you call it "whining" when it's hardly that. I'm calling it as it is. All but Wotherspoon have been forwards thus far, hence the 'hard on'. If you can't handle a little debate then why are you on here in the first place? If we all just agreed with each other there'd be no use for a ####ing forum. At least I'm attempting to make these poll threads interesting. Which leads me to believe that you're the one whining, since you can't get with the program, and instead are taking offence for others since I don't agree with them, when most of them don't give a damn, and if anything, probably enjoy the discussion.

The polls are already interesting without making broad strokes about the board having "hard ons" for forwards. As others pointed out, that is because the majority of our top prospects are forwards and because goalies are historically very random in their development. What program can't I get with exactly?

Originally Posted by fotze

I'm curious who DjsFlames think we are idiots for picking

Guess I'm not the only one who's noticed your tendency to deride others opinion if it doesn't follow yours

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The hockey world is littered with players who as prospects, probably deserved a chance to try their game in the NHL, but they just never get the call. So much of it has to do with luck (injury call-up to fill specific niches or positions, not being injured as the same time they are calling someone up, not being in a slump at the wrong time, internal politics, etc...).

I do think that if we have good prospects that are unlikely to get the call because of depth, we should entertain the thought of trading them for other assets. There is no point in letting them stall their development by never getting the call.

Ty Rattie for example... same age as Baertschi was out scored Baertschi in their draft year. (by 6 pts).. and was drafted #32 - 19 spots behind Sven.. then was really close to Baertschi in ppg their extra year at Portland together and because Rattie got drafted by St.L who was in the process of completing their build Rattie has 2 NHL games ..

Rattie has 31 goals in 72 AHL games .. Sven 23 in 73 AHL games

Rattie has collect 2 signing bonuses of 92K and 70K for his year in the AHL. total around $250 k

Baertschi on the other hand drafted by the talent poor Flames at the start of the rebuild has 3 years of 95 K bonuses and 51 NHL games. 330K from NHL last year and 632 K from 2011-12.

so these near identical players : Baertschi 1.2M Plus 70 K for his time in the AHL Rattie 250K plus $8,000 for his time in the NHL

Oh because of the Flames situation (panic for talent) Baertschi is a RFA after this year and Rattie is 2 years away.


I wonder if Rattie is happy he got drafted by the Blues instead of the Flames?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Ty Rattie for example... same age as Baertschi was out scored Baertschi in their draft year. (by 6 pts).. and was drafted #32 - 19 spots behind Sven.. then was really close to Baertschi in ppg their extra year at Portland together and because Rattie got drafted by St.L who was in the process of completing their build Rattie has 2 NHL games ..

Rattie has 31 goals in 72 AHL games .. Sven 23 in 73 AHL games

Rattie has collect 2 signing bonuses of 92K and 70K for his year in the AHL. total around $250 k

Baertschi on the other hand drafted by the talent poor Flames at the start of the rebuild has 3 years of 95 K bonuses and 51 NHL games. 330K from NHL last year and 632 K from 2011-12.

so these near identical players : Baertschi 1.2M Plus 70 K for his time in the AHL Rattie 250K plus $8,000 for his time in the NHL

Oh because of the Flames situation (panic for talent) Baertschi is a RFA after this year and Rattie is 2 years away.


I wonder if Rattie is happy he got drafted by the Blues instead of the Flames?

What are you even talking about?

You really need to get a basic fundamental understanding of contracts and ages of players in those contracts before you prattle on like this anymore. You're constantly getting stuff like this totally incorrect and then act smug about it to end your post.

Ty Rattie has two years left in his ELC because Baertschi had a "late" birthday for his draft year and could turn pro earlier. Rattie couldn't be sent to the AHL in 2012-2013, Baertschi could.

Similar to Poirier and Klimchuk. Same draft year but Poirier but has a '94 birth date and can be sent to the AHL this season, thus starting the first year of his three year entry level deal. Klimchuk will be sent back to junior and won't start his ELC yet.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

What are you even talking about?

You really need to get a basic fundamental understanding of contracts and ages of players in those contracts before you prattle on like this anymore. You're constantly getting stuff like this totally incorrect and then act smug about it to end your post.

Ty Rattie has two years left in his ELC because Baertschi had a "late" birthday for his draft year and could turn pro earlier. Rattie couldn't be sent to the AHL in 2012-2013, Baertschi could.

Similar to Poirier and Klimchuk. Same draft year but Poirier but has a '94 birth date and can be sent to the AHL this season, thus starting the first year of his three year entry level deal. Klimchuk will be sent back to junior and won't start his ELC yet.

I typed it slow... sorry about your comprehension problem.... Try hard to keep up... maybe your Mom could help.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I typed it slow... sorry about your comprehension problem.... Try hard to keep up... maybe your Mom could help.

Type slower, work on basic sentence structure, spacing and grammar.

[Bezer]

I had to go Sieloff, I am and have been a big fan since he was drafted and even after the mediocre time in the OHL with Windsor. I liked how he looked at camp, I like his attitude (don't take crap from anyone) and I like the fact that he takes things to heart and plays with passion.

He wont be a top pairing guy but he will be a solid 3-6 guy that helps you win. I suspect he won't play with Flames this year, but that is OK as a solid year or two in the AHL will help him get caught back up and develop further to make him a NHLer

Short version.. character guy and a (will be a) solid player.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Wow, Gillies and Ortio are tied... 90-90.

[SuperMatt18]

The two goalies should really just be 9A and 9B.

Both show good promise, with Gillies having more potential and Ortio having proven more at a higher level.

Honestly I think all of us had a hard time separating them and they are pretty equal at this point.

[Freeway]

Poirier's deal only kicks in if he plays 10 NHL games because he's a December birthday and signed in December, so his ELC can slide twice.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Wow, Gillies and Ortio are tied... 90-90.

I'm starting to think it's safe to call this a tie

[Coach]

Tight race here.

[GreenLantern2814]

I assume Rafikov has a vote because someone meant to vote Ortio but missed.