[GDT] GTD - Flames at Jets 6:00 - SNETW

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by M*A*S*H 4077

If that is what is happening then that is a poor way to handle the situation. I don't think Baerstchi has been superb the last few games. He's working hard out there but he's been a turnover machine. Dallas was better and he was alright against Edmonton but his game against SJ was dreadful and probably should have been benched for that one if they are benching him for making mistakes. Because he wasn't and because he has improved a lot in the past two games this makes me wonder if something happened in practice or in the film room. A coach is at the top of the pyramid on a hockey team, Baerstchi is doing something (or not doing something) to make Hartley frustrated. We have no idea what that is. I personally think there has to be an underlaying issue beyond just his on-ice play.

But Baertschi isn't the only player Hartley has done this with in the past.

Reporters said Hartley was screaming at Jones in practice last season. Next day, he's sent to Abbotsford. Currently, Jones is playing very well with the Heat and is among the leading scorers in the league, yet it looks like the Flames don't have the slightest interest in giving him another opportunity.

Cervenka just tore the Flames a new one a couple weeks ago in the media.

It's clear that Hartley doesn't like a number of his players. He already has three (four, as devo22 pointed out) examples of players he clearly doesn't like and won't evaluate rationally and he has coached the team for LESS THAN A YEAR.

Who is the common denominator in all of this? Who is the one truly being childish?

The 21 year old rookie who always has a smile on his face (he must have a bad attitude, right?)

Or is it the coach who has a long history of quarreling with his players?

But yes, no doubt I am overreacting and Baertschi is clearly the problem. To discuss otherwise would be sacrilege.

[SuperMatt18]

No way should Baertschi be sat tonight he is starting to find his stride and sitting him now would be counter productive.

[saillias]

A game for men, yes. Who gets to use Stempniak as a punching bag tonight while his line mates stand there drooling with their thumbs in their mouths?

[superfarmer]

He's done nothing all year to warrant more ice time. He's weak on the puck. He simply is not nhl ready. Send him to Abby for the rest of the year

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by browna

This was in the Herald, from Cruickshank, and very likely what Roger was alluding to...

2. BAERTSCHI OUT? — Hartley noted: “Big team. Loud building. Should be fun. It’s going to be a game for men. There won’t be any room for kids out there.”

Crappy slow men?

[bluloc]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

After 2 periods he was the #1 star imo. So he's trying hard but apparently he has to play a perfect game.

Guess you have pretty low standards if you're naming Him first star. I see him hustle out there but he looks a little lost out and can't generate much of anything. I also see a lot of plays dying on his stick while making some bone headed desicions. Seems like he's getting knocked off the puck way to easily. I'd rather see him get some quality minutes instead of getting benched every 4 games.

[Bertuzzied]

Also how the hell is Hartley giving Berra another start after the worst period of goaltending in Flames history???

Hartley is approaching Brent Sutter levels. It wouldn't shock me if he made Jackman our top line Centre soon.

[AC]

The only gripe I have with sitting Baertschi for a poor third period is that we're starting Berra after an awful third period himself.

It must be based on off-ice preparation as Freeway was speculating.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by bluloc

Guess you have pretty low standards if you're naming Him first star. I see him hustle out there but he looks a little lost out and can't generate much of anything. I also see a lot of plays dying on his stick while making some bone headed desicions. Seems like he's getting knocked off the puck way to easily.

Sounds like Galiardi or Jones to me

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

But Baertschi isn't the only player Hartley has done this with in the past.

Reporters said Hartley was screaming at Jones in practice last season. Next day, he's sent to Abbotsford. Currently, Jones is playing very well with the Heat and is among the leading scorers in the league, yet it looks like the Flames don't have the slightest interest in giving him another opportunity.

Cervenka just tore the Flames a new one a couple weeks ago in the media.

It's clear that Hartley doesn't like number of his players. He already has three examples of players he clearly doesn't like and won't evaluate rationally and he has coached for LESS THAN A YEAR.

Who is the common denominator in all of this? Who is the one truly being childish?

The 21 year old rookie who always has a smile on his face (he must have a bad attitude, right?)

Or is it the coach who has a long list of quarreling with his players?

But yes, no doubt I am overreacting and Baertschi is clearly the problem. To discuss otherwise would be sacrilege.

So much for only one post, eh?

First of all, forget Cervenka's situation. It was an unfortunate situation and I think it's more Feaster's fault for promising things he couldn't deliver, or Cervenka for interpreting the situation wrong. But that's not for this topic right now.

IF he is benched (which hasn't really been confirmed yet) then I too am struggling to find a reason. It depends on what Hartley has been asking of him. It is possible that he was specifically working on back checking with him and he didn't deliver in a key situation in the game. I don't really know and neither do you. I don't like it and I wish Baertschi was just playing well and forcing the coach to keep him in the lineup, but he's not. I don't know if it's because the player isn't responding to the proper coaching, or the coach is using the wrong strategy with the player. I'm willing to give Hartley a pass for now, but I would be pretty upset if Sven was traded at this point in his career unless it's for another can't miss, blue chip prospect.

And the whole debate about Gaudreau is ridiculous. In fact, it's feasible to think that since he is so small and we obviously have Hudler under contract for another couple season, Cammalleri here for this year, and Baertschi as a prospect, it's possible that maybe, just maybe, they would trade Baertschi to make room for a small skilled winger on the roster. IMHO Gaudreau's ceiling is higher than Baertschi as long as Johnny can adapt to the physical style of the NHL.

All that being said, I would like to see the kid get cut a little slack now and then, but if it works in the long run I can't fault them for taking this approach. Time will tell.

[Fan in Exile]

Just saw the projected lines for tonight in Winnipeg. Baertschi out. Jackman on the second line with Monahan and Hudler. Berra back in net. This is the response to what went wrong in Edmonton??

It is a rebuild year but how long does the losing streak go with such inane personnel decisions before we get to point out that the Emperor has no clothes. Hartley is living on borrowed time. May as well be sooner rather than later.

Also, don't get me wrong - I like Berra, but what does Ramo have to be thinking? Look at how short his leash has been. It 's just another example of the arbitrary inconsistency Hartely shows in his evaluation of players. Doesn't take long to lose a team acting like that.

[M*A*S*H 4077]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

But Baertschi isn't the only player Hartley has done this with in the past.

Reporters said Hartley was screaming at Jones in practice last season. Next day, he's sent to Abbotsford. Currently, Jones is playing very well with the Heat and is among the leading scorers in the league, yet it looks like the Flames don't have the slightest interest in giving him another opportunity.

Cervenka just tore the Flames a new one a couple weeks ago in the media.

It's clear that Hartley doesn't like number of his players. He already has three examples of players he clearly doesn't like and won't evaluate rationally and he has coached the team for LESS THAN A YEAR.

Who is the common denominator in all of this? Who is the one truly being childish?

The 21 year old rookie who always has a smile on his face (he must have a bad attitude, right?)

Or is it the coach who has a long list of quarreling with his players?

But yes, no doubt I am overreacting and Baertschi is clearly the problem. To discuss otherwise would be sacrilege.

Probably a little from column A and a little from column B. The only point I'm making is that it doesn't make sense to me that Baerstchi is being benched exclusively for his on-ice play.

I haven't brought up Baerstchi's attitude but if he is having an attitude issue then he should sit. No room for that here. The coach might be in the wrong but that doesn't change that he is still the coach until management decides otherwise.

[4oh3]

Flames should follow buffalo and clean house with its staff and start fresh for this "rebuild"

[heep223]

I agree with the posters saying that they just want to watch the young players and prospects. That's basically the only fun part of the year and the best part of the rebuild.

However we need to respect the fact that the organization needs to do what's best for the development of the player and not just satisfy fans in the short term. If you don't trust or believe in how the organization is doing so (which is the case for many, it seems) then that's another story. But I for one have no idea how to develop a highly skilled European NHL prospect and I think we need to give management more time to prove that they know (or don't know) what they're doing (particularly re: Baertshi). Give them at least a full season, guys. They are accountable to STH and fans in the long term but give them more time to prove either how smart or how stupid they are!

[4oh3]

4-2 jets

[lifetimefan]

Well, Tim Jackman did score his only goal of the season against St. Louis a week and a half ago. That totally merits second line.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by 4oh3

Flames should follow buffalo and clean house with its staff and start fresh for this "rebuild"

That's what gets me. Feaster went on record saying he wasn't interested in taking part in a rebuild, got hired by the guy who ran our franchise into the ground, somehow just kind of remained when we were looking for a new GM. Why is he here? This club should have used the opportunity to make a clean break.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

It's clear that Hartley doesn't like number of his players. He already has three examples of players he clearly doesn't like and won't evaluate rationally and he has coached the team for LESS THAN A YEAR.

I think you can add Roman Horak to the list, given his comments after being traded:

“I’m obviously disappointed but at the time I guess there were guys that deserved it more. It’s always in your hands but at the same time it’s not. You have managers and coaches, someone likes you, someone doesn’t like you. Sometimes it plays out like that and it played out that way with me.

“I played one game, got four minutes of ice time and then got sent down,” he said, referring to an Oct. 22 match against Phoenix.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...727/story.html

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by lifetimefan

well, tim jackman did score his only goal of the season against st. Louis a week and a half ago. that totally merits second line.

#gritchart

[Samiz]

I wish that we would at least use Reinhart in place of Jackman and send down Sven to Abby if this is the way things will be. Rhino plays harder and provides more energy than Jackman, who is not needed in the enforcer role since we have McGrattan