[GDT] Red Wings vs Flames 7:00 - SNetW

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't like to see young players scratched in a rebuilding season, I get that.

But if this is part of that culture change where we try and avoid raising a new generation of skill players that aren't all that hard to play against then I'm all for it.

Iginla was never good in his own zone, and I think as a captain that just can't happen or people will follow the bad habits.

He was never a Pavel Datsyuk as far as two-way play, but Iginla was for the most part just fine in his own zone.

We heard of Regehr vs Tanguay/Iginla arguments in the room etc for years.

For years? No we didn't.

You can't win that way.

If a scratch here or there now develops complete hockey players than sign me up. if it creates sulking and trade demands then likely we're better off without them anyway.

Maybe that makes sense for the Baertschi scratch, but Hartley complained about Backlund's play in the offensive zone (which I didn't really see).

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

He was never a Pavel Datsyuk as far as two-way play, but Iginla was for the most part just fine in his own zone.



For years? No we didn't.



Maybe that makes sense for the Baertschi scratch, but Hartley complained about Backlund's play in the offensive zone (which I didn't really see).

I'll give you "it wasn't for years", but it was a pretty splashy example of a veteran D getting on a group of forwards for not doing their job.

And I'll beg to disagree on Iginla in his own zone. I coach kids, Iginla is one of my favourite coaching points of what not to do in your own zone. I would guess Keenan, Sutter, Sutter and Hartley might agree more with my view, but they're smarter than me and didn't post anything anti-Iginla on the internet!

[Flamboyant 14]

Lets get a win tonight,go Flames go.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And I'll beg to disagree on Iginla in his own zone. I coach kids, Iginla is one of my favourite coaching points of what not to do in your own zone. I would guess Keenan, Sutter, Sutter and Hartley might agree more with my view, but they're smarter than me and didn't post anything anti-Iginla on the internet!

Iginla was a fine two-way forward until Keenan came along. I don't coach kids and don't do something as silly as teaching them "Iginla coverage" so maybe my thoughts aren't as valid but you're forgetting a lot of years.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'll give you "it wasn't for years", but it was a pretty splashy example of a veteran D getting on a group of forwards for not doing their job.

And I'll beg to disagree on Iginla in his own zone. I coach kids, Iginla is one of my favourite coaching points of what not to do in your own zone. I would guess Keenan, Sutter, Sutter and Hartley might agree more with my view, but they're smarter than me and didn't post anything anti-Iginla on the internet!

How not to play like Iginla.....with all due respect, you may want to rethink your coaching strategy.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

How not to play like Iginla.....with all due respect, you may want to rethink your coaching strategy.

That's a manipulative wording of his statement. While post-Keenan Iginla wasn't awful in his own zone, it's not a great way to play behind the blue line.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Agreed - Iginla at his best was a great 3 zone player. People forget how near 'perfect' of a player he was - great shot, good passes, offensive, defensive and physical. He came back regularly and it wouldn't exactly be a rare occurrence that he would dig the puck out for the team in the defensive zone.

Iginla in the last few years has made a lot of people forget that - namely when Keenan took over. (I still say that Darryl's worst mistake was his inability to find a decent coach - but that is another argument I would think).

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Cole436

That's a manipulative wording of his statement. While post-Keenan Iginla wasn't awful in his own zone, it's not a great way to play behind the blue line.

Just seems strange to use Iginla as your prime coaching example for bad defensive play.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Back to tonight's game………….

Go Flames?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

How not to play like Iginla.....with all due respect, you may want to rethink your coaching strategy.

Yeah that's exactly what I said.

Thanks

He cheated in his own zone, he felt if he wasn't scoring then they wouldn't win, and cheated towards offence. He picked the open ice in his own zone between helping out down low and picking up his defenseman. Open ice means freedom to go when the puck turn over but it doesn't work in a modern NHL team defense structure.

When Iginla got to Pittsburgh they Bylsma took it a step further by removing his zone coverage altogether. the games I saw in the playoffs Iginla would pursue the puck carrier high in the zone and let the other two forwards play zone to cover outlets.

Iginla was a warrior and a complete player when it comes to physical play, leadership and skill, but I don't think he was ever a model citizen in his own zone.

[Miniac]

Rob Kerr ‏@SNRobKerr
#Flames MacDonald gets the start and is the first goalie not named Miikka to start a game against #Wings for Calgary since Dec 10, 2008.

[Machiavelli]

^^
Not sure what you're thanking me for, but you're welcome.


So, Backlund was benched for...playing too much defense?

"We went through what he needs to do in a better way and he's all aware of this," Hartley said. "[Backlund] is very fun to work with. He's a great young man and he's done lots of great things for us. I told him, 'I believe you focus way too much only on your defensive game.'"

Backlund admitted he has concentrated a little too hard on keeping pucks out of his net and too little on filling the one at the opposite end.

"There have been times where I've been hesitating and thinking defense-first," Backlund said. "I'm going to try to loosen up a little bit and just try to get back to being the player I used to be and be a little more creative out there and make more plays and still be solid defensively and work hard all over the ice and be responsible."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=22162

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Glad to hear MacD is back after Ramo's shaky performance. Now MacD has to prove his last game was not the norm and give the team some confidence back there.

Goaltending saga continues.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

^^
Not sure what you're thanking me for, but you're welcome.


So, Backlund was benched for...playing too much defense?



http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=22162

I'm not sure why but I think Hartley's is try to hold the young players accountable and trying to get them all in the same mindset for now and the future.

Edit: Backlund's comments on tonight's game.

[Miniac]

Lets not forget, Flames will be wearing the new jerseys tonight.

[dissentowner]

I predict MacDonald will make two unbelievable saves because of his poor positioning and let in 5 softies. Wings win 5-4.

[BigBrodieFan]

I really hate Detroit.

That is all.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Miniac

I'm not sure why but I think Hartley's is try to hold the young players accountable and trying to get them all in the same mindset for now and the future.

Bull crap. Why wasn't Glencross benched? why wasn't he held accountable for his years and years of inconsistent play? Why wasn't Bourque held accountable? why wasn't Iginla held accountable? Bouwmeester? Fact of the matter is that some players are treated differently and that sends a terrible message.

The future is the present at all times in the NHL. Glencross makes a bad pass that leads to a GWG? I'm sorry but you bench him the next game or at least a period. If you're going to treat your players differently then fine but don't beat around the bush. All summer we heard Hartley talk about "it doesn't matter who you are if you're not working hard blah blah.. you will not be playing".

It is fair to call Hartley a liar. Hartley might be the right coach who knows, and I've actually liked a lot of things he has done but it's not the benching of Baertschi and Backlund that frustrate me, it's the non benching of other players at the same time that deserve it a lot more.

[TurnedTheCorner]

I'm not sure I'm going to make it through the game, just beat tonight. Hopefully it's a rousing affair.

Also we'll see if the new uniforms are a good luck charm or another devil donkey curse.

[Miniac]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Bull crap. Why wasn't Glencross benched? why wasn't he held accountable for his years and years of inconsistent play? Why wasn't Bourque held accountable? why wasn't Iginla held accountable? Bouwmeester? Fact of the matter is that some players are treated differently and that sends a terrible message.

The future is the present at all times in the NHL. Glencross makes a bad pass that leads to a GWG? I'm sorry but you bench him the next game or at least a period. If you're going to treat your players differently then fine but don't beat around the bush. All summer we heard Hartley talk about "it doesn't matter who you are if you're not working hard blah blah.. you will not be playing".

It is fair to call Hartley a liar. Hartley might be the right coach who knows, and I've actually liked a lot of things he has done but it's not the benching of Baertschi and Backlund that frustrate me, it's the non benching of other players at the same time that deserve it a lot more.

Relax, I didn't say I agree with him.