[News] Cammalleri not "scared" of a rebuild

[N-E-B]

A lot of you overvalue Cammy... Like... A lot. He's the tallest midget. Best player on the worst team. I hope he goes, he could still fetch us a half decent return, and I'd rather have Glenny and Gio mentor the young guys.

[RedMileDJ]

Cammy for the 'C'!!!

I wish. We all know Gio will get it.

[TSXCman]

I think there is some huge undervaluing of Cammy on this board. There is a trend now of established NHLers somehow not being as good as the rookies or the new up and comers.

Cammy plays at his highest effort level, forechecks, gets aggressive, and has a great shot. Can't see why he needs to be run out of town unless there is a situation where the move can better the team.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

I think there is some huge undervaluing of Cammy on this board. There is a trend now of established NHLers somehow not being as good as the rookies or the new up and comers.

Cammy plays at his highest effort level, forechecks, gets aggressive, and has a great shot. Can't see why he needs to be run out of town unless there is a situation where the move can better the team.

"Run out of town"??? LOL

I heard the same crap last year leading up to Iggy being traded. The truth is veteran players that can still play can't wait to get out of a rebuilding situation. I expect to hear and see the same thing when Cammi is traded to a contender/playoff team. A guy that's very happy he gets to play in the playoffs and will probably also mention how even if he wins a cup, he will not be coming back to a rebuilding team.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

"Run out of town"??? LOL

I heard the same crap last year leading up to Iggy being traded. The truth is veteran players that can still play can't wait to get out of a rebuilding situation. I expect to hear and see the same thing when Cammi is traded to a contender/playoff team. A guy that's very happy he gets to play in the playoffs and will probably also mention how even if he wins a cup, he will not be coming back to a rebuilding team.

That's really not an all encompassing truth, unless you are somehow able to prove that no decent veteran player has ever wanted to play on a team that is near the bottom trending upwards.
I mean hey, we did sign players this summer, they must all just think we're going to win the cup eh?
Edmonton, Columbus, Florida, Colorado. They all SOMEHOW managed to sign decent veteran players while being in a rebuilding phase. So your comment is totally off base and indicative of low level thinking.

As for what you assume he'll say (because you're the all knowing mind reader), I would counter with this: Why would he come back? If he leaves, what is for him here? He'd have been traded most likely, and owes Calgary nothing. It's not like Iginla who people hoped would come back some day because he meant this or that to the franchise, it's Cammi. Whoopteedoo. It's not like he'd have to say he wasnt coming back, because who the hell would expect him to? Do we all just sit around expecting every traded player to come back until they tell us otherwise?

Yeesh.

[EVERLAST]

I see Cammy putting more pressure on himself than he will allow others to put on him.

He has always been able prove his worth in my estimation.

In Montreal he put it perfect "we practice like losers and thats why we play like losers"!

You dont say those things just for the sake of saying those things and be that deliberate in my mind.

Yeah, he wants to win and don't believe for a minute what others are suggesting on here that he's in this for himself and himself only.

I am excited to see this team more with him than without and hope he proves allot of people wrong because it already sounds like he is the favorite to be this years whipping boy and is very undeserving of that bad cred.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by strombad

That's really not an all encompassing truth, unless you are somehow able to prove that no decent veteran player has ever wanted to play on a team that is near the bottom trending upwards.
I mean hey, we did sign players this summer, they must all just think we're going to win the cup eh?
Edmonton, Columbus, Florida, Colorado. They all SOMEHOW managed to sign decent veteran players while being in a rebuilding phase. So your comment is totally off base and indicative of low level thinking.

As for what you assume he'll say (because you're the all knowing mind reader), I would counter with this: Why would he come back? If he leaves, what is for him here? He'd have been traded most likely, and owes Calgary nothing. It's not like Iginla who people hoped would come back some day because he meant this or that to the franchise, it's Cammi. Whoopteedoo. It's not like he'd have to say he wasnt coming back, because who the hell would expect him to? Do we all just sit around expecting every traded player to come back until they tell us otherwise?

Yeesh.

LOL. I have noticed that all you like to do is stir crap up with your posts. You seem rather anal but i will get to that later.

Yes you get the odd quality top 6 player or top 4 d-man sign with rebuilding teams but not many. Most 30+ veterans that can still contribute in top 6 or top 4 role want nothing to do with a rebuild. Hell even Rett Warrener on the fan said so from his experiences as a player.


Look at the players that the flames signed or traded for this summer. Russel who passed through waivers, traded for Jones who had a worst contract than Tanguay, traded for Galiardi who will be given a chance on top 9. None of those players are over 30 and are all fighting for ice time on good teams.

We have seen what happens up north that getting quality ufa veterans is hard to do. Florida did get some veterans but look at the amount of money they gave them.

The 2nd paragraph you wrote, i have no idea what you are trying to say? It kind of looks like you agree with me that a veteran player would be happy to be traded from a rebuilding team, but its hard to read.

Getting back to the "anal" thing, you remind me of my 12 year old nephew. Someone who, if you don't spell it out for him precisely, will just disagree to rile things up. I presume you are the same age. The good part for us is that in 2 weeks, school teachers will take away your device that you use to post on CP.

As for "low level thinking" i will let that pass considering you have a lot of growing up to do.

[Vulcan]

One thing going for this team, they are expected to end up at the bottom of the standings, so no real pressure to win, just have fun. We'll see where it goes and see how Cammallari fits in. I bet he does fine and enjoys his role.

[Vulcan]

As for veterans anxious to get out of town to avoid playing for a rebuilding team, this is only one aspect of a players motivations. Some players may like the team and are loyal to their fellow players and management. It could be because they grew up as fans for the team or just like playing in a certain area. Canadian players playing for a Canadian team is an attraction. There are also other considerations such as their wives and family. Their wife could be from the area or her job could in the area. The kids could like the school they go to and the player feels relatively safe in the community. It's not all cut and dried about the money and the Cup.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

LOL. I have noticed that all you like to do is stir crap up with your posts. You seem rather anal but i will get to that later.

Yes you get the odd quality top 6 player or top 4 d-man sign with rebuilding teams but not many. Most 30+ veterans that can still contribute in top 6 or top 4 role want nothing to do with a rebuild. Hell even Rett Warrener on the fan said so from his experiences as a player.


Look at the players that the flames signed or traded for this summer. Russel who passed through waivers, traded for Jones who had a worst contract than Tanguay, traded for Galiardi who will be given a chance on top 9. None of those players are over 30 and are all fighting for ice time on good teams.

We have seen what happens up north that getting quality ufa veterans is hard to do. Florida did get some veterans but look at the amount of money they gave them.

The 2nd paragraph you wrote, i have no idea what you are trying to say? It kind of looks like you agree with me that a veteran player would be happy to be traded from a rebuilding team, but its hard to read.

Getting back to the "anal" thing, you remind me of my 12 year old nephew. Someone who, if you don't spell it out for him precisely, will just disagree to rile things up. I presume you are the same age. The good part for us is that in 2 weeks, school teachers will take away your device that you use to post on CP.

As for "low level thinking" i will let that pass considering you have a lot of growing up to do.

I can't speak to whether the poster has a history of stirring it up, but I don't think the ad hominem attacks are necessary. He disagrees with your point of view that no veteran wants any part of a rebuild.
There are many reasons why a veteran chooses a team in UFA or waives a NTC in a trade situation. Better chance at a cup is surely near the top of the list, but there are tons of other reasons. Money, playing time, Canadian/American preferences, etc. I don't pretend to know what Cammi wants, but I give him credit for playing hard last year and saying the right things this year. Also, I think merely identifying (or admitting to) a rebuild isn't that easy. Ottawa a few years ago? Montreal 2 years ago? Dallas now?

[Major Major]

The value that cammi brings is his hatred of losing. We need the young guys to embody this, and I wouldn't mind it if he was signed to a 2 year extension at 4.5 or something. If the kids pick up that attitude, it will be worth it and expediate a rebuild.

Also, it bears mentioning that, while these guys understand this is a rebuild, I don't think they see it in those terms. Cammi not only wants to win, he thinks they can win. When you add a few solid vets like that to a group of kids who don't know any better, surprises can happen.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh, that's not the only problem I have with your dose of bold.

For one thing, if Cammalleri, Stempniak, and Stajan all produce at that pace, the Flames may find it rather tough to finish with the #3 pick overall. That would require either (a) nobody else on the team scoring worth beans, or (b) some truly mind-blowing defensive suckage. Either of those things could happen, of course, but to count on them? That's bold, all right.

I think it is very possible for those guys to produce at a 55+ point pace while the team struggles to win games. Cammalleri, Stempniak and Stajan will get the big minutes, and the power play time, to be productive on the score sheet.

The upcoming season is going to be as simple as "how good do the new goalies do". Not only are we going into this season with2 european UFA goalies and a career backup playing in net but we are also going in with our weakest group on D that the Flames have probably seen in 10 years.


Our forward group a is less talented than it was a year ago. Say what you want about Iginla, he is a very talented player and the Flames are not a better team without him. The best thing that we can hope for is that our forwards will be more defensively responsible and hopefully be active in a team defense that tries to compensate for our weak D and G.


Also, if we do trade those three guys at the deadline, that is basically the equivalent to us trading away our top line. I imagine it would result in a pretty spectacular plummet on the standings as we would then be relying upon Hudler and Glencross to lead the team in scoring. Top 3 pick would not be out of the realm of possibility.

Originally Posted by Jay Random

For another, I don't see either Stempniak or Stajan fetching a 1st-round pick as rental players, no matter how much they produce this season. Especially if they are part of a team that craps the bed defensively so much that it finishes 28th or 29th.

I can see those guys being worth a first at the trade deadline, especially if they are on pace for 55+ point seasons. Teams trading for rental players do not care that the other team is in 28th place. If they did, rental players would never get traded.

If Stajan or Stempniak look like they can be the missing piece that a team needs in order to make a big push for the playoffs then they will make that trade because they will believe that the pick will be in the late 20s or hopefully 30th overall. If more than one team comes knocking for rental players then the price will get inflated.

History shows that Dominic Moore can get traded repeatedly as a rental player for a 2nd round pick without ever putting up a 50+ point season. I would put Stempniak at at least that value and Stajan would be worth more as a depth center.

If Feaster cannot outright get the 1st rounders then he should go with the conditional pick like Dallas did with the Jagr trade that upgrades the pick to a 1st if they progress in the playoffs.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

LOL. I have noticed that all you like to do is stir crap up with your posts. You seem rather anal but i will get to that later.

Yes you get the odd quality top 6 player or top 4 d-man sign with rebuilding teams but not many. Most 30+ veterans that can still contribute in top 6 or top 4 role want nothing to do with a rebuild. Hell even Rett Warrener on the fan said so from his experiences as a player.


Look at the players that the flames signed or traded for this summer. Russel who passed through waivers, traded for Jones who had a worst contract than Tanguay, traded for Galiardi who will be given a chance on top 9. None of those players are over 30 and are all fighting for ice time on good teams.

We have seen what happens up north that getting quality ufa veterans is hard to do. Florida did get some veterans but look at the amount of money they gave them.

The 2nd paragraph you wrote, i have no idea what you are trying to say? It kind of looks like you agree with me that a veteran player would be happy to be traded from a rebuilding team, but its hard to read.

Getting back to the "anal" thing, you remind me of my 12 year old nephew. Someone who, if you don't spell it out for him precisely, will just disagree to rile things up. I presume you are the same age. The good part for us is that in 2 weeks, school teachers will take away your device that you use to post on CP.

As for "low level thinking" i will let that pass considering you have a lot of growing up to do.

Sounds like you're just a little upset that someone was antagonising you the same way you were doing to someone else. Taste of your own medicine and all that.

So what you're saying is: You agree with me. There are veterans out there that would be happy to be part of a rebuilding team because of multiple factors including location, team makeup, contract offer, etc. It's not cut and dry, as you suggested originally while 'LOL'ing like an aforementioned 12 year old and calling someone else's opinion 'crap'.

As for the second part, since you need it laid out for you (funny, you seem to project quite a bit) what I as referring to is that it is rare to trade a player and have them come back, why would they? Bouw, Karlsson, Comeau, why would any of them come back? People wanting Iginla to come back is the exception, not the rule, so saying something like "he'll say he doesn't want to go back..." is silly, because it's so rare a player HAS to say that. That's not even just rebuilding teams, you think someone like Bolland or Frolik is saying "Well I'd sure like to go back to Chicago" in media availability? Come on bro.

Anyways, keep up the comparisons to your 12 year told nephew. I'd hate to think you're not even at their intelligence level, but hey, you said it, not me.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Stop with the insults and pot-shots please. Just discuss the topic maturely.

Thanks.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

n/m

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by strombad

Sounds like you're just a little upset that someone was antagonising you the same way you were doing to someone else. Taste of your own medicine and all that.

So what you're saying is: You agree with me. There are veterans out there that would be happy to be part of a rebuilding team because of multiple factors including location, team makeup, contract offer, etc. It's not cut and dry, as you suggested originally while 'LOL'ing like an aforementioned 12 year old and calling someone else's opinion 'crap'.

As for the second part, since you need it laid out for you (funny, you seem to project quite a bit) what I as referring to is that it is rare to trade a player and have them come back, why would they? Bouw, Karlsson, Comeau, why would any of them come back? People wanting Iginla to come back is the exception, not the rule, so saying something like "he'll say he doesn't want to go back..." is silly, because it's so rare a player HAS to say that. That's not even just rebuilding teams, you think someone like Bolland or Frolik is saying "Well I'd sure like to go back to Chicago" in media availability? Come on bro.

Anyways, keep up the comparisons to your 12 year told nephew. I'd hate to think you're not even at their intelligence level, but hey, you said it, not me.

First i was not "upset" i just think you are a poster that likes to rile things up and i have no problem calling you out on it.

2nd this is a thread about Cammalleri. You can't group all veterans in the same group. Cammi is in a group that can play top 6 on almost any team, not a 30+ veteran that does not want to play 3-4th line minutes and takes what he can get. For Cammi he will get his money and ice time pretty much wherever he plays. Hence why players in this group would rather have no part of a rebuild.

Did Cammi come out and say the right things in this thread article? Yes he did. Did he say the right things a month ago when asked? i would say not. Cammi is not a dummy and realises that he will not be traded right now and there is nothing to gain to try and force their hand. If he says the wrong thing now he could be traded to a team that has as much chance of playoffs as Calgary. No need to have to move twice in one year. He also gets to stay until the deadline on a team where the coach has come out and said that he likes to play his veterans. Cammi's best way to drive up his value is get his top line minutes and try and get as many points as he can.

For purposes of this thread, Cammi is not "scared of a rebuild" because he knows his time is almost up and he will have a good chance of playing playoff hockey by the time the deadline passes.

[Tinordi]

Cammalleri's best option is to just play well until the deadline when he'll be traded. The better he plays the higher likelihood he'll be traded.

That's not running a guy out of town. It's called rebuilding.

Alot of fans still don't have a good grasp on what's in store.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Cammalleri's best option is to just play well until the deadline when he'll be traded. The better he plays the higher likelihood he'll be traded.

That's not running a guy out of town. It's called rebuilding.

Alot of fans still don't have a good grasp on what's in store.

No one knows what's in store. Saying its called a rebuild implies some model of rebuilding that everyone follows. Things need to play out. One scenario results in cammi being re-signed. Another could be that he is worth nothing at the deadline. They will all be called rebuilds, and we will know what's in store for us when it happens.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Major Major

No one knows what's in store. Saying its called a rebuild implies some model of rebuilding that everyone follows. Things need to play out. One scenario results in cammi being re-signed. Another could be that he is worth nothing at the deadline. They will all be called rebuilds, and we will know what's in store for us when it happens.

For the bolded part:

There does not need to be one way to rebuild a team to be called a rebuild. Even Feaster has said that the team is rebuilding, so i am not sure what else has to be said about that.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

For the bolded part:

There does not need to be one way to rebuild a team to be called a rebuild. Even Feaster has said that the team is rebuilding, so i am not sure what else has to be said about that.

In a general simplistic way, there is a model for rebuilding which revolve around principles. But what happens if the flames decide that cammi is more valuable going forward from a leadership point of view than the second rounder he fetches at the deadline? It would still be caked a rebuild, no? And it would still embody the principals of the general rebuild model that you seem to think there is nothing left to even talk about. Because Feaster said so, right?