The 2013 Masters - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Bagor · 04-13-2013, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

No....he was told before he signed the scorecard by the rules officials that there was no violation ( Augusta just releades a stement saying so).....so he signed that with the understanding he didnt do anything wrong.

Which begs the question why the officials didn't ask him at that time if he had played the shot from the same spot.

It appears that, given that they told him there was no violation that they made the assumption that he played from the same spot.

Anyways ... as has been mentioned, really tough break on a perfect shot.

edn88 · 04-13-2013, 09:00 AM

I think that if I were Tiger I would DQ myself.

It would buy back so much integrity that he has lost over the past few years.

If he wins and this hangs over him, there will always be the 'asterix' attached to the win. If he DQs himself, it will add to his legacy. I know what Bobby Jones would have done.

Flabbibulin · 04-13-2013, 09:07 AM

Looking at the overwhelming response from virtually every other pro and golf pundit, I really think Tiger will WD.

Whether you like Tiger or not, absolutely awful that what should have been his best shot of the tournament will be his undoing either way.

gonzo29 · 04-13-2013, 09:15 AM

Personally I don't think Tiger should DQ himself. The pertinent part of the statement from the Masters competition committee here is where they say they had reviewed the shot prior to his signing his card. They didn't bring it to his attention as their initial ruling was he hadn't done anything wrong. They later reviewed it again after his interview. Therefore the onus for the signing of an incorrect scorecard is on the competition committee. Under rule 33 they have the right to incur a 2 shot penalty and waive disqualification, which is what they did. It's the right thing. I don't see why Tiger should WD just to appease the haters. Things are being done by the book, so he should play on. The competition committee is looking bad here, unfortunately Tiger will take the heat.

Bagor · 04-13-2013, 09:29 AM

Hmm... the more I read on this the more I think he should have been disqualified.

Quote:

The R&A and U.S. Golf Association relaxed its rules on disqualification for signing an incorrect scorecard after an incident involving Padraig Harrington in a European Tour event. A television viewer, watching coverage in high definition TV, phoned tournament officials that Harrington's ball moved ever so slightly as he addressed a putt. Harrington did not realize the ball had moved. When it was reviewed, however, officials determined the ball had moved and gave him a two-stroke penalty. Thus, Harrington was disqualified a day after the incident for signing an incorrect scorecard.The governing bodies determined players should not be disqualified because of "facts that he or she didn't know and could not reasonably have discovered prior to returning his scorecard. Thus, stroke penalties will be added to a score retrospectively.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...sters/2079725/

Is it not right to assume that a professional golfer and his caddy should know the rules and be responsible for doing so? i.e. Tiger was aware that he didn't drop from the same spot.

My point is if he had known the rules this wouldn't have happened. And it is reasonable to think he should have been aware to that "fact"?

Flabbibulin · 04-13-2013, 10:10 AM

Tiger has gone to twitter and basically says he accepts the penalty- make no hint of withdrawing. Looks like he will play.

nfotiu · 04-13-2013, 10:22 AM

I don't understand how Tiger thought that was okay. That is a pretty basic rule. And he purposely dropped it two yards back to give himself a better shot. Given that it was intentional, he should probably be DQ'd, although it is more fun to watch with him around for the weekend.

I've often wished they made a rule for a ball hitting the flag and bouncing back into a hazard. A free drop maybe? There should be a hazard in the middle of the green.

gonzo29 · 04-13-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I don't understand how Tiger thought that was okay. That is a pretty basic rule. And he purposely dropped it two yards back to give himself a better shot. Given that it was intentional, he should probably be DQ'd, although it is more fun to watch with him around for the weekend.

I've often wished they made a rule for a ball hitting the flag and bouncing back into a hazard. A free drop maybe? There should be a hazard in the middle of the green.

The argument for him being DQ'd isn't that he took an improper drop, it's that he signed an incorrect scorecard. He's correctly being assessed a 2 shot penalty for the improper drop. The reason he isn't being DQ'd is because the competition committee had the opportunity to bring the violation to his attention before he signed his card, but did not do so because they initially felt it was not a violation. This is definitely a grey area within the rules, but my personal opinion (biased though it is) is that this is a fair ruling.

Matty81 · 04-13-2013, 11:43 AM

As someone who is not a big golf fan that reduces the likelihood of me watching the weekend pretty hugely. The PGA allowing viewers to call in rules violations after the fact is a joke seriously... some viewer called it in later and took their big star out of the weekend after their officials had already let it go and made his score official. Oh well, maybe they gain more viewers than they lose by encouraging anal retentive weirdos who don't like watching sports but enjoy pretending they are refs.

chummer · 04-13-2013, 11:50 AM

He's gone from a Tiger to a cheetah.

corporatejay · 04-13-2013, 11:51 AM

This is the absolute worst part of golf. The "hotline" losers calling in penalties after rounds. So lame. It was lame when it happened in that so-called bunker years ago and it's lame now. Get a life.

browna · 04-13-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty81

As someone who is not a big golf fan that reduces the likelihood of me watching the weekend pretty hugely. The PGA allowing viewers to call in rules violations after the fact is a joke seriously... some viewer called it in later and took their big star out of the weekend after their officials had already let it go and made his score official. Oh well, maybe they gain more viewers than they lose by encouraging anal retentive weirdos who don't like watching sports but enjoy pretending they are refs.

Yeah, I don't doubt there are people strictly watching to call in and call someone on a rule violation...and I bet for all the times there are actual rules violations, there are 20 calls/emails/whatever for those that someone thinks there are and think's they're the next USGA Rules committee member.

That said, this isn't Bob Estes grounding a club in a bunker in the Palookaville Open, and how this goes unnoticed by the TV commentators, who I also assume have a guy specifically watching Tiger's every move (they'd be silly not to), in the Masters, on a fairly dramatic sequence of events for the world #1, is also puzzling.

Regardless, the way its played out I don' think it's worth DQing himeslf..and to be honest, for the nothing that it matters, I thought you were allowed to drop anywhere, as long as it was no closer to the hole.

gonzo29 · 04-13-2013, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This is the absolute worst part of golf. The "hotline" losers calling in penalties after rounds. So lame. It was lame when it happened in that so-called bunker years ago and it's lame now. Get a life.

Totally agree. The governing bodies of golf need to get things like this straightened out. Calls from viewers regarding potential violations should not be taken, period. Walking rules officials should be the final word on these matters. Also, with the modern technology we have at our disposal, scorecards should be able to be amended, as Tiger's was today. There's no reason for DQing players for signing an incorrect scorecard other than standing on tradition. Golf needs to move forward.

GirlySports · 04-13-2013, 12:19 PM

I don't know the rules. Here's the picture.

GirlySports · 04-13-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matty81

As someone who is not a big golf fan that reduces the likelihood of me watching the weekend pretty hugely. The PGA allowing viewers to call in rules violations after the fact is a joke seriously... some viewer called it in later and took their big star out of the weekend after their officials had already let it go and made his score official. Oh well, maybe they gain more viewers than they lose by encouraging anal retentive weirdos who don't like watching sports but enjoy pretending they are refs.

This is why there's no replay in soccer, could you imagine scores being reversed the next day!?

moon · 04-13-2013, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This is the absolute worst part of golf. The "hotline" losers calling in penalties after rounds. So lame. It was lame when it happened in that so-called bunker years ago and it's lame now. Get a life.

For minuscule little things like a leaf maybe but for a blatant cheat like this where a golfer gets a big advantage I think it is good.

Also wasn't this caught before end if round and not by somebody calling in to report it?

gonzo29 · 04-13-2013, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I don't know the rules. Here's the picture.

The rules are quite complex, but in this situation Tiger was taking the option to play from approximately where the previous shot was played from. A player in this instance doesn't need to play from their old divot, they are allowed to drop the ball one club length from the previous spot, no closer to the hole. Given that a driver is about 45 inches long, he's pretty close to that. According to the rules committee's initial ruling, he was within that range. The problem for Tiger came when he stated in a post-round interview that he went back from the initial spot so that he could make the same swing he had before and not have the same result. That is a clear violation of the rules and I'm shocked he didn't know that. He basically combined 2 of his 5 options regarding a drop from a yellow hazard.

Hope that's clear, but, well it's complicated

Drake · 04-13-2013, 12:32 PM

Shouldn't be a surprise that someone who has no problem cheating on his wife will have no problem cheating on the golf course.

How is Jim Nantz feeling about this penalty?. The first 30 minutes might be hard to watch today on CBS.

gonzo29 · 04-13-2013, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

For minuscule little things like a leaf maybe but for a blatant cheat like this where a golfer gets a big advantage I think it is good.

Also wasn't this caught before end if round and not by somebody calling in to report it?

A) I wouldn't call this a blatant cheat, it's not like Tiger freaking Woods was trying to cheat with a million eyes on him.

B) Moving back about a club length is not a big advantage, it is pretty much the definition of a miniscule advantage. And for that, he was appropriately penalized 2 shots.

HOOT · 04-13-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I've often wished they made a rule for a ball hitting the flag and bouncing back into a hazard. A free drop maybe? There should be a hazard in the middle of the green.

The reason is because a player can ask for the flag to be removed before any shot on the hole. So if Tiger thought it was an issue it could have been removed. It also doesn't always work as a hazard because let's say someone hits it past the flag, spins it back and the flag stops it. Should that player then have to drop it for getting a break or is it play on?

Unlucky break for him all around. I hope this lights a fire under him and he has a strong Saturday to lead into the final road. Asterix if he wins? HA!

And yes Tiger cheated and then told the national television audience he did so right after.