Can you trust Justin Trudeau and the Liberal Party?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

My belief is that the longer a party and it's leader stay in power, the less I trust them.

You must really trust Mulcair then!

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by SebC

You must really trust Mulcair then!

It's a sliding scale. What part of 'less' do you not understand?

[Azure]

Personally I don't think there is that much of a difference between the Liberals and Conservatives. Liberals might be a bit more fiscally responsible, but Mr. Fiscal Responsibility himself, Paul Martin proposed a ######ed $6 billion dollar daycare program last time he ran, so who knows.

We need someone young that has good ideals and will work to try and implement them. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Gotta pay down that debt again, since the Conservatives aren't interested in doing it at all.

[EddyBeers]

Maybe Rerun would vote for the Liberals if Dean Del Mastro was leader. He seems like a "trustworthy" guy.

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Azure

We need someone young that has good ideals and will work to try and implement them. Socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Gotta pay down that debt again, since the Conservatives aren't interested in doing it at all.

Conservative politicians do not care about paying down debt and their voters certainly do not because they hate the only party in Canada that has a history of paying down debt.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Rerun

... one other thing... I really find it quite surprising that redneck Calgary continuously elects "Liberal" mayors. I think Ralph was one of the few "Conservative" mayors and if memory serves me correctly, even he started out as a Liberal party supporter.

It's because in reality Calgary is not a redneck city, nor do I think it's all that ideologically conservative. More centrist and pragmatic than anything else. Peter Lougheed has long recognized this fact.

Let's be honest, Calgarians don't vote against Liberals because of their ideology, it's because they got burned by a liberal leader once (and badly) and therefore vote for the party that is the "home team" (even though they too continually burn us in other ways - largely by taking us completely for granted).

[Azure]

Originally Posted by EddyBeers

Conservative politicians do not care about paying down debt and their voters certainly do not because they hate the only party in Canada that has a history of paying down debt.

That and their stupid crime bill is the reason they pretty much lost my vote.

I would have given them slack due to the fact that we did go through a recession, but they're not making a serious attempt at fixing the issue now. And there was the whole problem of massive deficits before the recession.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Bunk

It's because in reality Calgary is not a redneck city, nor do I think it's all that ideologically conservative. More centrist and pragmatic than anything else. Peter Lougheed has long recognized this fact.

Let's be honest, Calgarians don't vote against Liberals because of their ideology, it's because they got burned by a liberal leader once (and badly) and therefore vote for the party that is the "home team" (even though they too continually burn us in other ways - largely by taking us completely for granted).

You can't blame the Liberal Party of Canada's lack of success in Alberta on the NEP which was enacted in 1980. Alberta has always been anti-Liberal. The last time the Liberal Party of Canada took the majority of seats in Alberta was in 1911 when Wilfred Laurier was elected Prime Minister. Ever since then, in every federal election, the Liberals have been soundly defeated by other parties here in Alberta. Alberta has been a virtual wasteland for the Libs since Laurier was defeated by Robert Borden in 1917.

And the last time the Liberal Party of Alberta was in power was from 1917-1921 under the leadership of Charles Stewart. Between 1971 and 1986 the Liberal Party of Alberta did not win a single seat in the povincial legislature and did not receive more than 6% of the vote.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

That and their stupid crime bill is the reason they pretty much lost my vote.

I would have given them slack due to the fact that we did go through a recession, but they're not making a serious attempt at fixing the issue now. And there was the whole problem of massive deficits before the recession.

Eh? They didn't run a technical deficit before the recession. The just increased spending and cut GST to cut down the surplus, which exacerbated the recession deficit. They did create a structural deficit, but usually an unqualified "deficit" is a term reserved for a real accounting deficit.

[Bunk]

Anti-Liberal, rather than anti-liberal.

The current generation of Liberals federally are probably ideologically moderate enough that Albertans could get behind them, but the brand is damaged and Albertans feel like the Liberal party is not interested in them and in fact they villify us to gain in other regions - they can get away with it because of our electoral system. Is Alison Redford really to the right of say Paul Martin's Liberals? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Rerun

You can't blame the Liberal Party of Canada's lack of success in Alberta on the NEP which was enacted in 1980. Alberta has always been anti-Liberal. The last time the Liberal Party of Canada took the majority of seats in Alberta was in 1911 when Wilfred Laurier was elected Prime Minister. Ever since then, in every federal election, the Liberals have been soundly defeated by other parties here in Alberta. Alberta has been a virtual wasteland for the Libs since Laurier was defeated by Robert Borden in 1917.

And the last time the Liberal Party of Alberta was in power was from 1917-1921 under the leadership of Charles Stewart. Between 1971 and 1986 the Liberal Party of Alberta did not win a single seat in the povincial legislature and did not receive more than 6% of the vote.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You can't blame the Liberal Party of Canada's lack of success in Alberta on the NEP which was enacted in 1980. Alberta has always been anti-Liberal. The last time the Liberal Party of Canada took the majority of seats in Alberta was in 1911 when Wilfred Laurier was elected Prime Minister. Ever since then, in every federal election, the Liberals have been soundly defeated by other parties here in Alberta. Alberta has been a virtual wasteland for the Libs since Laurier was defeated by Robert Borden in 1917.

And the last time the Liberal Party of Alberta was in power was from 1917-1921 under the leadership of Charles Stewart. Between 1971 and 1986 the Liberal Party of Alberta did not win a single seat in the povincial legislature and did not receive more than 6% of the vote.

Its more then that, successive Lib leaders didn't help to heal the alienation that Albertan's felt especially after the Liberals ripped off the bandaid with the National Energy Program.

From Creitiens claim that he didn't understand Albertan's and basically didn't like dealing with them, to his refusal to campaign here seriously to the cynical move to shut down CFB Calgary.

To Dion's taking aim at the energy sector to feed his social programs.

To Paul Martin's indifference to Trudeau's scorn. The Liberal have themselves to blame for not getting any real voting traction here, they basically treated Alberta as a vassal state instead of a member of Canada.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Its more then that, successive Lib leaders didn't help to heal the alienation that Albertan's felt especially after the Liberals ripped off the bandaid with the National Energy Program.

From Creitiens claim that he didn't understand Albertan's and basically didn't like dealing with them, to his refusal to campaign here seriously to the cynical move to shut down CFB Calgary.

To Dion's taking aim at the energy sector to feed his social programs.

To Paul Martin's indifference to Trudeau's scorn. The Liberal have themselves to blame for not getting any real voting traction here, they basically treated Alberta as a vassal state instead of a member of Canada.

We're not swing voters, so there's no reason to pander to us... for anyone.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by SebC

We're not swing voters, so there's no reason to pander to us... for anyone.

Yeah, I get that, but when you alienate a whole region because as a potential leader of a country you just don't give a sh%% its bad leadership.

When you as the leader of a party plainly state that you don't understand and don't want to deal with a specific region, then you can't expect that region to ever get behind your party.

The decay of the Liberal party started long before the last two election, it started with their leaders and it probably started just after Truedeau retired.

Jean Chreitien is Satan himself.

And not the cool motorcycle reding super devil.

[Slava]

These threads are comical. Its a bunch of guys who would never vote Liberal and have no intention of ever doing so explaining why there is only one true party that they can vote for. None of them are going to vote NDP or Green. They won't vote Liberal based on policies from decades ago, or comments from decades ago and as a result they will only vote for the CPC.

It makes no difference to them that the CPC has policies stated for things like cap and trade. It matters not that they are no more fiscally conservative than anyone else despite their proclamations otherwise. The voters here don't really care whether their policies recently like the F35 debacle, omnibus crime bill or cutting the GST are simply bad policies. They don't mind that they hand out tax credits like candy on halloween despite them obvious examples of terrible distribution methods.

No, the voters care about just a few other far more important things:

1. The word "Liberal". Nothing says "let me judge a book by its cover" more than voting against a good candidate because they're a Liberal.

2. "The west wants in". Well bad news for western alienation types; the west has been in for a number of years now and the policies aren't really any different. We don't have any great say that we were lacking a few years back. It sounds like a great rallying cry, but the "west" only includes Alberta in this line of thought anyway. Voters all around us have consistently elected NDP and Liberal MPs for decades.

3. The Liberals are too "tax and spendy": Well again, bad news. The reality is that all of the spending and deficit problems we see today are a result of the Conservative policies of the past decade. They have no relation to the prior Liberal government who in fact had balanced the budget and were running a much tighter ship than what we see today. From a pure fiscal standpoint this government has been the highest spending in Canadian history and that's on an inflation adjusted basis.

4. The Liberals lie and cheat. This is probably my favorite or all of them. The facts just tell the other half of the story. The CPC has been under investigation a number of times from the "robo-call scandal" to the "in and out scheme". There have been questions of ethics with Maxime Bernier, Helena Guergis and the list goes on. Doe I even need to mention such luminaries and Brian Mulroney and his good buddy Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber? The fact that people just overlook some of these issues of toss out the "well the Liberals are worse because..." line (as if that is any possibly justification!) is simply amazing. Why should us citizens accept that because party cut corners and acted unethically in the past that their opponent should now have carte-blanche to act in a similar manner?

[MarchHare]

Yeah, I get that, but when you alienate a whole region because as a potential leader of a country you just don't give a sh%% its bad leadership.

Somehow I get the feeling that you wouldn't accuse Harper of "bad leadership" even though he's completely alienated Quebec. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you see that as a virtue for Harper (and that view is likely shared by a majority of Albertans).

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Somehow I get the feeling that you wouldn't accuse Harper of "bad leadership" even though he's completely alienated Quebec. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you see that as a virtue for Harper (and that view is likely shared by a majority of Albertans).

I don't see how he's alienated Quebec, he's campaigned there placed strong candidates there, he's created policies that address Quebec including allowing the whole nation within a nation thin.

Harper has put far more effort into Quebec then the Liberals have ever put into Alberta.

[troutman]

Bobblehead, Devil's Rule, Devils'Advocate, flamingreen, longsuffering, MarchHare, Senator Clay Davis, SinceDay1, troutman, Vulcan

All commies!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by troutman

Bobblehead, Devil's Rule, Devils'Advocate, flamingreen, longsuffering, MarchHare, Senator Clay Davis, SinceDay1, troutman, Vulcan

All commies!

Suckers! It was a ruse to pull you out of the woodwork!

[Bobblehead]

My vote has actually flipped back and forth over my voting career. I tend to vote based on the current issues and whether I believe the local candidate is someone who I trust in representing me.

What I hate is people who are so entrenched in their views for a political party that it has become like cheering for a favourite team. Giving one party your vote regardless of how they perform strikes me as foolish.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

These threads are comical. Its a bunch of guys who would never vote Liberal and have no intention of ever doing so explaining why there is only one true party that they can vote for. None of them are going to vote NDP or Green. They won't vote Liberal based on policies from decades ago, or comments from decades ago and as a result they will only vote for the CPC.

There is next to zero chance that I would vote for the Greens or the NDP, I think their platforms are insane. I have voted Liberal in the past, but lets be honest, the candidates that the Liberal's have run out here have been weak. It also doesn't help that their leadership for the last several elections, you know the guys that want to be prime minister or have been prime minister haven't resinated in the west at all and haven't given a crap. Theres never been any kind of repraochment from the Liberal Party leadership or even an effort given to regain votes so why would anyone out here vote for them on blind face.



[QUOTE=Slava;3745754It makes no difference to them that the CPC has policies stated for things like cap and trade. It matters not that they are no more fiscally conservative than anyone else despite their proclamations otherwise. The voters here don't really care whether their policies recently like the F35 debacle, omnibus crime bill or cutting the GST are simply bad policies. They don't mind that they hand out tax credits like candy on halloween despite them obvious examples of terrible distribution methods[/QUOTE]

All governments have had bad policies, all governments have had scandals though Chretien should probably stand as the most corrupt and cynical politician that this country has ever seen. Scandals happen, but lets be honest the whole robocall and f35 scandals still pale in comparison with the schemes that the Liberals pulled off

Originally Posted by Slava

No, the voters care about just a few other far more important things:

1. The word "Liberal". Nothing says "let me judge a book by its cover" more than voting against a good candidate because they're a Liberal.

Obviously the Liberal brand name is resonating negatively with more then just Alberta and they've done a poor job of reconstructing the party.

Originally Posted by Slava

2. "The west wants in". Well bad news for western alienation types; the west has been in for a number of years now and the policies aren't really any different. We don't have any great say that we were lacking a few years back. It sounds like a great rallying cry, but the "west" only includes Alberta in this line of thought anyway. Voters all around us have consistently elected NDP and Liberal MPs for decades.

Which goes towards what I say, the Liberal's have done a really sh%tty job of trying to reach any kind of understanding with Alberta. Fact is they'd rather paint Alberta as the bad guy that should be paying to be part of this country.


[QUOTE=Slava;3745754]3. The Liberals are too "tax and spendy": Well again, bad news. The reality is that all of the spending and deficit problems we see today are a result of the Conservative policies of the past decade. They have no relation to the prior Liberal government who in fact had balanced the budget and were running a much tighter ship than what we see today. From a pure fiscal standpoint this government has been the highest spending in Canadian history and that's on an inflation adjusted basis. [/quotes]

Lets not be too gushy about the Liberals, they did balance the books on the backs of the provinces and in doing so set health care back to the stone age. The Liberal's were also the ones that screamed for heavy spending stimulus programs when the Conservatives took pwer at the start of the recession. You also really can't argue that during the last few campaigns that the Liberals' sounded anything like a lets keep the books balanced party, their platforms were even further left then the NDP.

Originally Posted by Slava

4. The Liberals lie and cheat. This is probably my favorite or all of them. The facts just tell the other half of the story. The CPC has been under investigation a number of times from the "robo-call scandal" to the "in and out scheme". There have been questions of ethics with Maxime Bernier, Helena Guergis and the list goes on. Doe I even need to mention such luminaries and Brian Mulroney and his good buddy Mr. Karlheinz Schreiber? The fact that people just overlook some of these issues of toss out the "well the Liberals are worse because..." line (as if that is any possibly justification!) is simply amazing. Why should us citizens accept that because party cut corners and acted unethically in the past that their opponent should now have carte-blanche to act in a similar manner?

Until we get the honesty and holier then you party all we can say is that all parties cheat. You talk for example Robocall being a direct insult to democracy, but in the same breath the sponsership scandal was an attack on democracy. Shawinigate where the Prime Minister used the bank for his own personal proft and his bodies profits was as bad or worse then anything the Cons have done.

Sadly the fact is that both major parties come across as corrupt, it dosen't seem to be a liberal or con exclusive trait.