Ken King - Is his time coming to an end?

[North East Goon]

Which Oilers fan came up with the name mashing of Keaster - I still chuckle at that!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Don't think anyone saying what Keenan said is 100% true.

Canada 02 (whom I originally responded to) was essentually saying just that.

Originally Posted by Joborule

And lets say KK is being a very hands on guy which causes Flames to continue to miss the playoffs for more consecutive seasons without improvement. The bottom line will start dipping down.

And at a certain point THAT is when and why Ken King ought to be bumped. Not now because Iron Mike called him a meddler. Besides which there is no indication that KK being a very hands on guy (if that's even true) causes the Flames to miss the playoffs.

Thing is success is a very important attribute in sports business. Icing a successful team = money.

Usually, but not always, true. Phoenix in the NHL and Tampa Bay in MLB being pretty good examples of a successful team not = money (or at least inpressive revenue).

In fact Many cups plus losses makes no sense.

I agree it probably wouldn't happen. I was just pointing out that from a business perspective it's the $$$ that counts not the championship banners.

Flames playing hockey until May/June is MUCH more profit than playing hockey until April only. Building a team that will be contender will get the Flames much more revenue than continually paying for a mediocre team.

True. But I highly doubt that any alleged "meddling" is done to produce a team that plays hockey only until April. The "meddling" isn't even proven, and if proven would then have to demonstrate a negative outcome, and then if a negative outcome is proven it must be shown to have a negative financial impact weighted against other factors (principlly the success or lack there of of the other brands under his umbrella).

His influence could be preventing the Flames from profit growth.

Could being the operative word. IMO you can't bump him until that "could" is definetively shown to be an "Is". Calgary Flames Ltd. is expanding operations at present not contracting.

[bettman]

Time for a new culture. One that looks to the future. It starts at the top of the worker bees, a.k.a. King

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Parallex

True. But I highly doubt that any alleged "meddling" is done to produce a team that plays hockey only until April. The "meddling" isn't even proven, and if proven would then have to demonstrate a negative outcome, and then if a negative outcome is proven it must be shown to have a negative financial impact weighted against other factors (principlly the success or lack there of of the other brands under his umbrella).

Obviously his intentions aren't to sink the team but the result could be that outcome. He isn't a hockey guy. His best intentions could actually be responsible for some of the dumber moves the Flames have done, or maybe not. I think we are getting close to the point of beyond reasonable doubt that he has his fingers where they don't belong. We got people coming out to the media about it and a poster on here in another thread saying that he is also an extremely hands on type when he used to do ventures with him. What more do you need? For King to come out himself and admit he is?

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Psytic

What more do you need? For King to come out himself and admit he is?

King, or Feaster while currently employed by the Flames, or an active member of the ownership group.

Then I'd like to here what exactly he had his fingers in so I can form an opinion as to whether it would actually be a negative.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Parallex

King, or Feaster while currently employed by the Flames, or an active member of the ownership group.

Then I'd like to here what exactly he had his fingers in so I can form an opinion as to whether it would actually be a negative.

That will be happening very soon, for sure.

[Stay Golden]

Kking makes Murray Edwards more money to add to his kingdom. So KKing will remain.
But if KKing has been involved with on ice decisions that is a flat out joke to the Flames as an orginization. Kking has next to no hockey IQ, its embarrasing as a Flames fan if this has been happening.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What if ownership told Darryl to fix the Flames 9 game losing streak at all cost? Thus the 72 hours of D. Sutter madness?

What if ownership told Feaster we are not selling after Feaster blew a gasket just before trade deadline this year? Especially since it was pretty clear Flames should be sellers at that point?

Before I thought Darryl went crazy. But with Keenan comments and Feaster having to backtrack on what he said, I think it's warranted to truly believe that those above the GM chair are getting too involved by overruling the GM decisions, which has come back to bite us in the ass.

I'm not saying that the president and ownership can't be in any way, shape, or fashion involved in hockey operations. After all they're the highest position people so they should have their say. And their presence in regards to hockey transactions can be an asset at times. But you gotta have faith that your GMs will make the best decisions possible. They're suppose to be the smartest hockey personnel in the whole entire hierarchy. If Feaster thought we should be sellers, let us be sellers rather than overruling him. If you don't trust Feaster word then why is he the GM?

Look what ownership involvement has brought to the Oakland Radiers and Dallas Cowboys.

Sutter was working on the Phaneuf deal with Toronto for weeks before it broke, not 72 hours. Just ask Burke. He could easily have shopped Phaneuf around more if he wanted too. I don't buy that the owners forced Sutter to fix the losing streak within 72 hours. They may have told him to fix it, but considering how few GM's knew about Phaneuf being available, and how it took several weeks for the deal to materialize, I don't think it was as much of a 72 hours of insanity as people think. I just think Sutter misjudged the quality of the talent coming back in the Phaneuf trade and that it was a deliberate trade made by him. Sutter could just as easily have asked ownership and King to not do anything rash because of a 9 game losing streak, but instead he put together a trade with Toronto that doesn't appear to be the best he could get. I really think that Sutter made the decision to make the trade because he felt a shake-up was needed, not because the owners asked him to fix 9 games of close losses.

[hkstylez]

Honestly, Ken King and the owners should just stick to doing front office stuff and let Feaster and Brent do the on and off ice stuff. Team is going absolutely nowhere if the Owners tell Feaster what to do.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Kking makes Murray Edwards more money to add to his kingdom. So KKing will remain.
But if KKing has been involved with on ice decisions that is a flat out joke to the Flames as an orginization. Kking has next to no hockey IQ, its embarrasing as a Flames fan if this has been happening.

Exactly, King is just a proxy and he does what he's told. If meddling owners tell him to meddle, that puts this organisation in a bad light and I can't imagine GMs better than yes-man Feaster lining up for the job. Meddling owners will meddle, King or no King.

However, IF owners do not meddle and its King who has his paws in the cookie jar then he needs to be held accountable.

Lots of meddling and lots of hands in cookie jars.

I like cookies.

What?

[Badgers Nose]

IMO

Anyone who thinks that King is going anywhere must be a new arrival in Calgary, or very naive.

[mister__big]

Originally Posted by Mackeneasy

They say that *%^& flows downriver, but what needs to be realized is that accountability flows up stream.

The buck may at some point stop at Ken's door. Whether that is now or not is TBD.

I just really hope this organization that preaches intelectual honesty start practicing it.

Just what exactly is "intellectual honesty" anyway? I'm still waiting for Feaster to explain that one...

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

IMO

Anyone who thinks that King is going anywhere must be a new arrival in Calgary, or very naive.

I am in total agreement with this -- KK makes the organization a ton of money. He makes it stronger and more visible in the community. And he brings a huge amount of business savvy in rationalizing the operations. That's what he's paid for.

Not going anywhere but higher upstairs.

That is, however, not to say that people may not be brought in under him (say a VP Hockey Ops).

[SebC]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Not going anywhere but higher upstairs.

The Dilbert pricinple?

[FAN]

If there's a problem with King's performance in relation to the on-ice performance the owners can always scale back King's duties and responsibilities. Firing King really is not necessary and unwarranted given his performance in his other duties.

[Stay Golden]

Kking makes Murray Edwards more money to add to his kingdom. So KKing will remain.
But if KKing has been involved with on ice decisions that is a flat out joke to the Flames as an orginization. Kking has next to no hockey IQ, its embarrasing as a Flames fan if this has been happening.

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Exactly, King is just a proxy and he does what he's told. If meddling owners tell him to meddle, that puts this organisation in a bad light and I can't imagine GMs better than yes-man Feaster lining up for the job. Meddling owners will meddle, King or no King.

However, IF owners do not meddle and its King who has his paws in the cookie jar then he needs to be held accountable.

Lots of meddling and lots of hands in cookie jars.

I like cookies.

What?

agree I'm just sick of listening to KKing's repetitive speel. For me its gotten to the point when he comes on 960 or the news I just change the channel. If Edwards wants to continue to meddle he will just hire another Minion to do his bidding minus the sausage fingers.

[hah]

I realize I have bumped a year old thread, but reading over the posts some similar issues still exist.

Why is King not held accountable for the direction of the team?

They got rid of the all the core, coaches, managers, ushers, training staff, doctors, etc, during his regime, yet he still keeps his job.

Since the SCF of 2004 (sounds like an Oiler fan) until today Mr King has managed to run the team into the ground.

We do not need him around for marketing, and the new building.

I hope Mr King does not run the Stampeders into the ground in the same fashion. Only time will tell.

Time for the Mr. King and the Flames ownership group to part company.

[troutman]

At Iggy's press conference it was clear he was good friends with the owners.

That has to change in the future - keep it a business relationship. It is too difficult to make the necessary moves, when everyone is buddy-buddy.

[JayFlowmeester]

The things I would do for him to be gone

[Tinordi]

I love the recent trend of exhuming old threads.