2012 Federal Budget

[Azure]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Agree in general terms. I wonder though, when it's the Conservatives who just want to find excuses to get rid of it, or other broadcasters wanting competitive information. It's no coincidence that all this happened now. (And no, the CBC isn't blameless either).

Not sure why you're making excuses. Taxpayers are funding the CBC, taxpayers want to know how money is spent. If they can't do that, by all means start the witch hunt and burn the whole place to the ground.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Agree in general terms. I wonder though, when it's the Conservatives who just want to find excuses to get rid of it, or other broadcasters wanting competitive information. It's no coincidence that all this happened now. (And no, the CBC isn't blameless either).

Why would the conservatives want to get rid of it? Essentially you're admitting that our public broadcaster isn't impartial. I want our public broadcaster to behave like PBS and NPR, information provided at face value without spin that caters to a specific political ideology.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm fine with that. I also want to know why the government is giving money to venture capitalists in this budget and where that $500M is going. Surely I can't be the only one on this who thinks that Steve and Jim ought to look in the mirror next time they trot out the not in the business of being in business" line.

I'm not sure what you're referring to with regards to $500M to venture capitalists. Wouldn't the definition of crown corporations be investing public funds in business ventures?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm fine with that. I also want to know why the government is giving money to venture capitalists in this budget and where that $500M is going. Surely I can't be the only one on this who thinks that Steve and Jim ought to look in the mirror next time they trot out the not in the business of being in business" line.

Absolutely. I've voted CPC (and predecessors) in every Federal election since I've been of legal age, but that is BS. There is absolutely no reason to pander to regional and special interests like that. It's real-politik, and it's economically inefficient. If we can't afford to do research, or build jet engines or invest in a region in an economically sustainable way, then we should stop doing those things. The Canadian economy should focus on the things we're good at, since that leads to higher productivity and real wage growth.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I'm not sure what you're referring to with regards to $500M to venture capitalists. Wouldn't the definition of crown corporations be investing public funds in business ventures?

Well its one of the spending points in the budget, $500M to a Canadian Venture Cap. Association. I suppose the government giving money to a private group who then invests the money somehow (?) absolves the CPC of being involved?

Fact is, this government brought down a completely non conservative budget for the 5th or 6th time in a row. The cuts aren't major and they are still spending way more than any Liberal government ever has. They are purely banking on economic recovery because there is no control in the government itself. Not only will they not cut, but its tax credit after tax credit. The worst way to redistribute wealth and they're addicted. The oversight needed for these programs is way more than a simple reduction in taxes (which I would disagree with, but at least it would be sensible)

Some will point to point to the reduction of say 20,000 workers and yes, that sounds huge. Harper has added 31,000 though.

Unbelievable that Canadians fell for this sham of fiscal conservatism.

[burn_this_city]

I think frankly they were afraid of making deep cuts when the economy in Ontario is still in the ####ter. This budget didnt go far enough for me either, but I can see the rationale behind not going at it with an axe.

[etherealgirl]

Originally Posted by Azure

Not sure why you're making excuses. Taxpayers are funding the CBC, taxpayers want to know how money is spent. If they can't do that, by all means start the witch hunt and burn the whole place to the ground.

Because if they can't also be allowed to compete (if they keep this model, which is very similar to a private broadcaster in practicality), then they'll fail. Do you honestly believe there isn't an anti-CBC agenda?

[etherealgirl]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Why would the conservatives want to get rid of it? Essentially you're admitting that our public broadcaster isn't impartial. I want our public broadcaster to behave like PBS and NPR, information provided at face value without spin that caters to a specific political ideology.

Uhhh, no. Conservatives want small government, and by nature would be against a large publicly-funded broadcaster. Regardless of supposed bias.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Because if they can't also be allowed to compete (if they keep this model, which is very similar to a private broadcaster in practicality), then they'll fail. Do you honestly believe there isn't an anti-CBC agenda?

Why wouldnt they "be allowed" to compete? They do now for god sakes, only they have a massive advantage over their rivals to the tune of a 1 billion dollar a year head start. If they fail its only because their programming is not what people want...which is the entire point.

And who/what is in control of this anti-CBC agenda? I dont get it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Uhhh, no. Conservatives want small government, and by nature would be against a large publicly-funded broadcaster. Regardless of supposed bias.

No kidding. Because in the year 2012 there is LITTLE need for a broadcaster like CBC. If they can't sustain their business model through advertising or other revenue, then shut it down.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why wouldnt they "be allowed" to compete? They do now for god sakes, only they have a massive advantage over their rivals to the tune of a 1 billion dollar a year head start. If they fail its only because their programming is not what people want...which is the entire point.

The idea of CBC is that it doesn't provide the programming that people want: it provides the information people need (and that is a competitive disadvantage, which is why it gets subsidized). Whether it actually does this in the age of smartphones and the internet is another question.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SebC

The idea of CBC is that it doesn't provide the programming that people want: it provides the information people need (and that is a competitive disadvantage, which is why it gets subsidized). Whether it actually does this in the age of smartphones and the internet is another question.

Well if they arent providing what people want...why are people paying for it?

Its an assinine situation. The entire premise when established was to provide information/news/entertainment to Canadians that could not get it any other way...that reason simply doesnt exist any longer and has not for decades.

Its time for the CBC to sink or swim on its own and quit relying on an enormous amount of money from the very people who arent watching what they are selling and overwhelmingly do not want it on their dime any longer.

As i have been saying for years and years now...if a public broadcaster cant make it on their own like PBS does (yes maybe some subsidies from gov't as well), then they simply have zero reason to exist.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by SebC

The idea of CBC is that it doesn't provide the programming that people want: it provides the information people need (and that is a competitive disadvantage, which is why it gets subsidized). Whether it actually does this in the age of smartphones and the internet is another question.

Lol, what's that? Liberal biased news? This is a necessity now?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Lol, what's that? Liberal biased news? This is a necessity now?

There's something to be said for a having a news orgnaization that isn't controlled by corporate interests. Also programming relevant to Canadian culture might have some public interest value. Having said that, my personal opinion is that much of CBC's content does not justify public funding, so I'm not going to go too far to defend them.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SebC

There's something to be said for a having a news orgnaization that isn't controlled by corporate interests. Also programming relevant to Canadian culture might have some public interest value. Having said that, my personal opinion is that much of CBC's content does not justify public funding, so I'm not going to go too far to defend them.

There's something to be said if those very newspeople weren't unionized....so whether corporate or union influenced, they are not clear of obvious bias.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

The idea of CBC is that it doesn't provide the programming that people want: it provides the information people need (and that is a competitive disadvantage, which is why it gets subsidized). Whether it actually does this in the age of smartphones and the internet is another question.

I doubt all the shows that the CBC has are information people needs.

If it were strictly a news channel, I would agree with you, but they're not.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Azure

I doubt all the shows that the CBC has are information people needs.

If it were strictly a news channel, I would agree with you, but they're not.

It's not fully subsidized though either.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SebC

It's not fully subsidized though either.

If it were strictly a news channel, the subsidies wouldn't be so bad. But they're not, and IMO a lot of money is being wasted to show something that the private sector would easily provide if there was enough demand.

[CaptainCrunch]

The day and age of needing a dedicated channel to support Canadian Content is dead. Space, Bravo and showcase show far better Canadian content then CBC for example. We've even seen American stations picking up or copormoting Canadian shows.

someone above said that it was refreshing to see a news station not controlled by corporate interests, but for the most part even CTV news net puts far less spin on the news then CBC does, the CBC which seems to take its lead from the Liberal Party and unions.

The CBC used to be essential to get T.V. entertainment and news to the regions that couldn't receive other stations through the air, but now with the internet and fibre I don't think that there are any regions in the country that need a service like CBC's.

Spending a billion dollars a year on a national government T.V. service in this day and age is a bad waste of money, and you can't expect the CBC to continue to reap rewards when they're competing with private cable countries who don't get subsidized.

I'm sure that some of the better shows on CBC like Dragon's Den for example would get snapped up in a hurry by the CTV's or other networks in this country.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by etherealgirl

Captain Crunch -


- Right, so a lie isn't a lie if it serves a greater purpose. Like helping to win an election.

- Are you talking news, or lobbying, or....? As above, diversity of media ownership is important for democracy.

- Actually, lots of people are watching great Canadian programming, despite the significant obstacles that are sometimes required to produce it. Other networks are getting much better at producing CanCon, but there would be a serious dirth without the CBC.

- Actually, both TV and Radio are doing better than they ever have in the past. Do you actually watch or listen?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ontent=2387386

- Also, the CBC is launching lots of new online initiatives. CBC 3 was an early one, now CBC Music channel, apps, lots of other stuff. They're not limiting themselves to traditional media.

- You may claim not to watch Sun, but you speak like a true Krista Erickson fan. Sun is such bull, sorry. And if you think Sun and Quebecor are not sleeping with the government and that all of this is not purely ideological, you have another thought coming.

- I don't actually disagree with you on the CBC needing to make some tough decisions and changes - TV, I mean. I think what many CBC fans find problematic is the cavalier way people talk about an institution that has served the country well for decades and continues to make a pretty big impact in a lot of people's lives, and deserves more than derision.

Now back to my family, sorry.

Funny that I watched Sun TV for the first time since its second week tonight and it was way over the top for me, I'm more of a moderate.

Canadian's shouldn't be subsidizing music services where the CBC for example is trying to compete with the Istores of the world. In fact, if they want to expand their revenue streams, then for every dollar they make, we should be able to reduce their funding by a dollar.

CBC isn't doing anything innovative or better, they're taking other ideas out there and then adopting them in a subsidized environment, thats actually the opposite of what the government should be doing or funding.

I would be onboard with these changes, if the end result was to reduce CBC's funding to zero and creating a national broadcaster that wasn't a cancerous leech every budget period.

A lot of people are watching great Canadian content on other channels, we no longer need CBC to act as the flag bearer of Cancon.

I rarely watch CBC, except for Hockey Night in Canada, I watched their news service during the last federal election just so that I could devour their tears when they started crying when the Cons hit majority status. I find their news service to be poor compared to other services internationally, and I like the format on CTV news net way more then CBC's.

CBC radio doesn't hold my attention, I don't like the music, I mainly listen to the fan during the day, and rarely listen to the radio at night.