Daily work start time

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Pylon, the problem is that the mom and pop type shops with employers like Vic don't exist anymore.

Why would I want to put in an extra second, minute, hour or whatever for an employer who is a giant faceless corp and doesn't give two hoots about me?

The only motivation is promotion. There is no such thing as loyalty anymore.

Maybe I'm being a little black and white but generally I think this is true.

There are loyal employees and people that aren't loyal. It's always been that way and always will be.

Some of you guys think we're living in a unique time, but I think it's more of the same. What's that quote by a Greek philosopher or something from a couple thousand years ago rattling on about how the kids today (back then) aren't as good as the current generation? That sounds like some of the people in this thread.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

The boom transformed a lot of companies too. It made them realize they had to do better than a pay cheque to retain employees. If they wanted to retain workers then they had to be better at catering to their employees and provide a better working environment with greater flexibility. No one wants to be treated like a child when it comes to working hours, especially when you spend a significant portion of your life at your job.

I'm not saying that what your employees do is right or wrong because I only know some of the details. But if they are getting the job done and going to bat for you when it really matters, then what's the big deal?

I say this without attitude, Rhettzky, the big deal is,if you are scheduled to start work at 8:00AM what makes it ok for you to start at 8:05AM?
yes, its minor but nevertheless, it shouldn't be ok.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I say this without attitude, Rhettzky, the big deal is,if you are scheduled to start work at 8:00AM what makes it ok for you to start at 8:05AM?
yes, its minor but nevertheless, it shouldn't be ok.

Is there any chance these guys are staying an extra 5 minutes or more at times without putting anything on their timesheet?? I'm late sometimes or take longer lunches but my boss realizes that it comes out in the wash when I work at night from home or weekends without charging.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fotze

Ya you will do it, I find myself doing the same. I think its really hard to not get like that.

Look how many people stick to the music of their teens/twenties and those that keep looking for new. Its a 95:5 ratio. Thats why Takin Care of Business is always on the radio. An old nostalgic song that has themes of workin' hard, cause workin' hard is good.

It is curious we work hard for the end goal of not having to work hard. Being lazy is looked down upon, yet its everyone's goal. No one has a goal to work 16 hours a day in a coalmine. The need to work really hard is really a function of where you were born or poor choices by yourself/ancestors.

I always give'r 110% you know.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

The boom transformed a lot of companies too. It made them realize they had to do better than a pay cheque to retain employees. If they wanted to retain workers then they had to be better at catering to their employees and provide a better working environment with greater flexibility. No one wants to be treated like a child when it comes to working hours, especially when you spend a significant portion of your life at your job.

I'm not saying that what your employees do is right or wrong because I only know some of the details. But if they are getting the job done and going to bat for you when it really matters, then what's the big deal?

Except that these sound like customer facing jobs, which makes showing up late to work, or not being where your suppossed to be becomes unprofessional, especially if there's a consistancy to it.

[AFireInside]

I agree with some of the posters in this thread.

If I'm scheduled to be at work for 8 I show up at 8 ready to work. Meaning I don't start working and getting my day organized until 8.

The company telling me to be there 15 minutes early to organize and find out what needs to be done that day is just the company getting 15 minutes of free work everyday. Thats 65 free hours a year. They get enough free hours when I stay late and don't get paid for it.

If you want me there 15 minutes early to get started, then schedule me 15 minutes earlier and pay me for it.

Of course this attitude all depends on the company you work for as well. I've worked for smaller companies that are more enjoyable and personable to work for, and are not owned by a large corporation. In those cases I was less worried about the free minutes before shift. But big companies with 1000's of employees, would be getting a lot of free work....

[justkidding]

When you are chronically late you are making yourself more important than the people / customers / boss who are waiting for you. It is arrogant behavior. That is why it irritates people.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Is there any chance these guys are staying an extra 5 minutes or more at times without putting anything on their timesheet?? I'm late sometimes or take longer lunches but my boss realizes that it comes out in the wash when I work at night from home or weekends without charging.

This is what I am arguing here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...2&postcount=58

Unless it was job critical, I could never stand bosses/managers who did not recognize that employees often do not leave on time either and often stay longer to get things finished up and it balances out. The amount of time I ended up staying at the office at the end of the day to finish things up that couldn't be abandoned right at 5:00 so I could go home on time usually ended up to be far in excess of the times I spent being less punctual or slow in getting going in the morning.

We still don't know that many specifics of this particular job in question but if it is time critical that they be punctual then there so be no argument.

[anyonebutedmonton]

This thread has made me very happy I work on salary for a boss who couldn't care less about 5 minutes to begin my day.

It helps that I don't really have a designated time that I start or finish. Then again I am usually working much more than the typical 40 hrs a week.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

This is what I am arguing here: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...2&postcount=58

Unless it was job critical, I could never stand bosses/managers who did not recognize that employees often do not leave on time either and often stay longer to get things finished up and it balances out. The amount of time I ended up staying at the office at the end of the day to finish things up that couldn't be abandoned right at 5:00 so I could go home on time usually ended up to be far in excess of the times I spent being less punctual or slow in getting going in the morning.

We still don't know that many specifics of this particular job in question but if it is time critical that they be punctual then there so be no argument.

The problem is it doesn't always balance out. I've been a salaried employee where my employer thought letting me go 15 minutes early a couple of times a month was "balancing out" the overtime I was putting in. I was actually tracking my over time and the time she was giving me and it turns out I had put in over 100 hours of uncompensated overtime.

I rather just get paid for my time and now that I own my own business I rather people just charge me for their time. When you go by the "it all works out" philosophy, somebody is getting screwed.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I say this without attitude, Rhettzky, the big deal is,if you are scheduled to start work at 8:00AM what makes it ok for you to start at 8:05AM?
yes, its minor but nevertheless, it shouldn't be ok.

As pointed out above, it's not okay in some lines of work. But here's a hypothetical situation in a job where being there at an exact time isn't necessarily the end of the world... the Employee works hard each day for his employer, they get their work done, represent the employer very professionally and are a positive influence in the work place. At the end of the week the employer calls the employee into his office and reams the employee out for being 5 or 10 minutes late each day. The message being sent is, I am more concerned with you being in a chair at a certain time of day then I am with what you do once you are in it.

There is a shift in mentality in a lot of businesses that provide for more flexibility in the hours worked. I'm not endorsing cheating the company out of hours worked by any means, just pointing out that there are more important things to consider when it comes to employee performance than the 1-2% of the day that 5 to 10 minutes represents.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

As pointed out above, it's not okay in some lines of work. But here's a hypothetical situation in a job where being there at an exact time isn't necessarily the end of the world... the Employee works hard each day for his employer, they get their work done, represent the employer very professionally and are a positive influence in the work place. At the end of the week the employer calls the employee into his office and reams the employee out for being 5 or 10 minutes late each day. The message being sent is, I am more concerned with you being in a chair at a certain time of day then I am with what you do once you are in it.

There is a shift in mentality in a lot of businesses that provide for more flexibility in the hours worked. I'm not endorsing cheating the company out of hours worked by any means, just pointing out that there are more important things to consider when it comes to employee performance than the 1-2% of the day that 5 to 10 minutes represents.

I would agree with this in certain positions, for example I get paid a salary, I get paid a commission on deals I make, and if I make quotas and don't screw around with the customers then its livable, I can make up my time later if I need to.

But if the job is customer based or tardiness is inconvieniencing co-workers or for example production schedules then no late is not acceptable.

And instead of continually showing up late then being upset because they got lectured on it, its up to the employee to go to their boss, and ask for that flexibility instead of putting a manager or employer into a position that they come out as the bad guy because the employee isn't living up to their agreed upon working conditions.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Sample00

carrying on from Pylon a bit, as I had an employer just like that as a youngster, I believe that the boom of a few years ago made employees into the individuals they are today.

A few years back, if you didnt like your job or somebody offer you a dollar an hour more, you simply left. Employers were at the mercy of the employees.

I believe things have shifted back a bit now but some of the younger generation isnt seeing it. There seems to be a feeling of entitlement and that is very unfortunate.

Out of curiosity, what do you offer your employees beyond a paycheck? Do you offer training, benefits, clear paths and opportunities for advancement, personal and professional development, etc?

If you're not offering people anything more than a job, you're not going to get workers who are there for any reason other than money.

Take a moment and think about why these kids are working for you. Is it because they care about you personally? Your business? Your customers? Do they believe in what you're selling, the service that you're providing? Is working at your business beneficial to them in any way other than it provides them with money?

Instead of looking at it as there is something wrong with them and their behaviour, maybe think about it as there is something wrong with the business that isn't motivating people to the necessary behaviour.

[WhiteTiger]

When I was managing a small drug store, I usually wasn't too fussy about start times for my cashiers, as I made overlapping shift times by a half hour.

What ground my gear, as it were, was the one empolyee I had to schedule 1/2 hour earlier than I wanted her there, if I wanted to see her 'on time'. I wished I could have afforded to fire her so many times, but with the times being what they were (3 years ago, now) I couldn't. I knew that I'd not be able to replace her very easily (I spent a lot of time arguing with my DM about raising the starting wage to try to attract an actual quality cashier)

[BlackArcher101]

Sample, I guess you could say I was (maybe still am?) one of these youngun's you describe.

As time goes on,my job starts to get monotonous, and I tend to start showing up a bit later. I went from 7:30 (with a 8:00 start time) to (8:00 - 8:05). I'm not really a morning person and probably felt I was getting away with it. I do however feel guilty when this happens, and I always stay late to make up the time (and usually even more so). I never did ask for OT, even at 1hr per day.

One day my manager pulled me aside and told me someone was complaining that I wasn't at my desk at 8am. Needless to say I felt a bit peeved but realized his point of view. I now have the viewpoint that if they will be picky, so will I. I now show up 5 minutes to 8:00, no earlier and leave at 4:30 on the dot.

I have no real need to be at my desk at 8:00, other than "because others are". Unfortunately, I now feel even worse about the place after petty complaints of being a few minutes late, while my free OT never went recognized.

I value recognition and flexibility quite a bit in an employer, of which mine apparently has none. Makes it real hard to wake up in the mornings. Especially when the boss shows up late and leaves early, which is pretty hypocritical.

[Ducay]

Thread makes me glad that my employer/industry doesn't treat me like an entry level stooge. As long as the work is getting done and there are no issues with the client, life goes on.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by Vansmack

There isn't much that makes me work harder than seeing my boss pulling long hours as well. If it is as simple as them showing up late, let them know that this isn't acceptable, if it continues you can obviously make a decision to let them go and find a replacement, or stop complaining about.

If they were my reports, I'd talk to them both individually and make sure they understand the expectation.

If they failed to respond I would terminate them, no questions asked.

You don't have to have grounds for termination, you can terminate without cause if you pay them out based on tenure.

My reports understand what's expected of them and act accordingly.

[FlameCity]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

One day my manager pulled me aside and told me someone was complaining that I wasn't at my desk at 8am. Needless to say I felt a bit peeved but realized his point of view. I now have the viewpoint that if they will be picky, so will I. I now show up 5 minutes to 8:00, no earlier and leave at 4:30 on the dot.

I have no real need to be at my desk at 8:00, other than "because others are". Unfortunately, I now feel even worse about the place after petty complaints of being a few minutes late, while my free OT never went recognized.

I value recognition and flexibility quite a bit in an employer, of which mine apparently has none. Makes it real hard to wake up in the mornings. Especially when the boss shows up late and leaves early, which is pretty hypocritical.

This happened at my last job too. I was late probably everyday . . . didn't start out that way but after 12 years sometimes some areas start slacking . . . but my work ethic and job performance never did. I probably worked 3 out of 5 lunch hours a week, stayed late if a project needed to get done . . . sometimes till eleven at night because some manager decided to give me work at the last minute . . . often that I had repeatedly asked for.

As soon as my supervisor came to me about not being in right at eight because his supervisor talked to him about it, all overtime I worked for the company either stopped or I took it all back in time in lieu even if it was only 15 mins.

Loyalty and responsibility go both ways.

[-TC-]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Especially when the boss shows up late and leaves early, which is pretty hypocritical.

The boss has earned his perks, when you are the boss you will have perks too.

Until then, you do what's expected or go find something else to do.



This generation is full of people who think they are entitled, the reality is that you have to earn it.

[transplant99]

IMO...something like this will get their attention and give you all the ammo needed to sit down with them when the time comes. Doesnt matter if they are hourly or salary.



Fair for all.