Daily work start time

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Stay classy.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Stay classy.

Pound sand.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Sliver

There's a way to penalize your employees for being late.

You have to break their pay out into a base pay and an hourly performance bonus. So if you want to pay them $15 an hour, pay them $10/hour base pay and a $5/hour performance bonus. Clearly lay out your expectations for them to receive their performance bonus (e.g. no more than 15 late minutes within a pay period, no theft, no quitting without notice, no drugs, etc.). If they don't meet your criteria, dock them all or some of their performance bonus.

Dock that bonus once and you'll whip everybody into shape. Or they'll quit. Either way, the problem will be taken care of.

Haha...my youngest brother had this happen to him a few years ago. It worked like a charm actually, even though he was a good employee and showed up early/worked hard at his ##### job already. Made him REALLY hate his boss though.

...but then it comes down to personality again...some people will eat crap-sandwiches at a crappy job and call it sunshine, other's will find something else or coast.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by fotze

Sample, how is the job market in Edson, tough to find people or the opposite? I imagine for the mechanic it would be in his favor. Actually we need a mechanic in that area, whats his contact info. Can he make it to Fox Creek?

now see, fotze, there you go making assumptions again. I said he was a technician. You took that to mean mechanic. He's not a mechanic.
I have other businesses besides the car dealership where I require the services of a technician.

Having said that, the job market in Edson is ....interesting. You can find people to work but the tough part is, finding good people.

These two individuals that I have working for me are otherwise very good people which is why I will probably just turn a blind eye. It frustrates me but they have other qualities that make them good employees.

I guess its just something that gnaws at me. I am the type of person that is at work early and stays late. It was just something that was ingrained in me as a kid. I wish others had the same type of work ethic.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by driveway

Here's how you need to look at it, Sample:

Is it affecting the experience of customers who are shopping at your store?

If yes: disciplinary action needs to be taken. Start procedures to remove these guys as employees - write ups, or whatever the procedure is at your store.

If no: then you need to realize that it's just you who has a problem with it, and it's only a problem because of your personality. It's not a business issue and you need to figure out how to let it go.

The answer is yes and no. Yes because sometimes customers are waiting as I am waiting on others but usually/most times, its not a problem. No, because if you are scheduled to work at a certain time, you should be at work and ready to go at the allotted time. I dont think thats an unfair request.

Now as mentioned in my previous post, these individuals do have other qualities which make them good employees. I think I will continue to comment periodically on the tardiness in hopes that they get the message but at the same time I'll somewhat live with it.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Sliver

There's a way to penalize your employees for being late.

You have to break their pay out into a base pay and an hourly performance bonus. So if you want to pay them $15 an hour, pay them $10/hour base pay and a $5/hour performance bonus. Clearly lay out your expectations for them to receive their performance bonus (e.g. no more than 15 late minutes within a pay period, no theft, no quitting without notice, no drugs, etc.). If they don't meet your criteria, dock them all or some of their performance bonus.

Dock that bonus once and you'll whip everybody into shape. Or they'll quit. Either way, the problem will be taken care of.

You don't have to do weird things with incentives that will almost certainly alienate them, just tell them they are lazing about too much at the start of their shifts.

I'm not a business owner, but I would think if these two are good employees, Sample doesn't want the cost and time of finding new ones. So it's best to communicate more directly and set clearer expectations, than to rearrange their pay.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Sample00

The answer is yes and no. Yes because sometimes customers are waiting as I am waiting on others but usually/most times, its not a problem. No, because if you are scheduled to work at a certain time, you should be at work and ready to go at the allotted time. I dont think thats an unfair request.

That's the fairest requiest of all

Originally Posted by Sample00

Now as mentioned in my previous post, these individuals do have other qualities which make them good employees. I think I will continue to comment periodically on the tardiness in hopes that they get the message but at the same time I'll somewhat live with it.

Your a bigger man then me, your basically paying them for not being efficient.

[Temporary_User]

Somewhat related. I've worked at two different companies doing the exact same thing.

Company A, we would all show up early, punch in and then socialize while we got our work boots and gear on. Company didn't care. Nothing was said and literally everyone did this.

Company B, everyone would just show up at random times, but most would show up in their boots and gear ready to work. When I started here, I would show up early punch in and then go get my stuff on. This company cared though. Told me once not to punch in until I was ready to work. Alright, payroll obviously starts paying from time punched in rather than start time.

I think that is the main difference. Do you pay from times or from the punch in clock?
I've even had a company that required everyone to punch in and out for lunch. Just to strictly enforce that lunch was only half and hour. Go over the half, and the time will be deducted from your pay.

One more thing, Company A paid a great wage. Company B's wage was decent and they had an incentive.
Company A was a much better place to work at. For me and everyone else. If company A had a problem with something you did, they would say something right away and fix it. Company B would typically let it go un-stated until the bonus pay-day. Then when you were expecting a nice big cheque, it would be lower than what you had planned for because each and every little thing got docked from it.
Instead of an incentive cheque, it was more a carrot that they dangled in front of you just to whip away as soon as you got close. Everyone resented it.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

That's the fairest requiest of all



Your a bigger man then me, your basically paying them for not being efficient.

its a slippery slope. Oh the tangled web we weave!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

Somewhat related. I've worked at two different companies doing the exact same thing.

Company A, we would all show up early, punch in and then socialize while we got our work boots and gear on. Company didn't care. Nothing was said and literally everyone did this.

Company B, everyone would just show up at random times, but most would show up in their boots and gear ready to work. When I started here, I would show up early punch in and then go get my stuff on. This company cared though. Told me once not to punch in until I was ready to work. Alright, payroll obviously starts paying from time punched in rather than start time.

I think that is the main difference. Do you pay from times or from the punch in clock?
I've even had a company that required everyone to punch in and out for lunch. Just to strictly enforce that lunch was only half and hour. Go over the half, and the time will be deducted from your pay.

One more thing, Company A paid a great wage. Company B's wage was decent and they had an incentive.
Company A was a much better place to work at. For me and everyone else. If company A had a problem with something you did, they would say something right away and fix it. Company B would typically let it go un-stated until the bonus pay-day. Then when you were expecting a nice big cheque, it would be lower than what you had planned for because each and every little thing got docked from it.
Instead of an incentive cheque, it was more a carrot that they dangled in front of you just to whip away as soon as you got close. Everyone resented it.

I can tell you that most of the companies that I deal with either request that you don't punch in until the start of the shift, or set a 15 minute before and after grace period, and if you go over that grace period the pay has to be signed off on by a supervisor. Most companies just do a assumptive for lunch breaks, but some do require punch in and punch out and pay to the 15 minutes.

[Young-Sneezy]

Originally Posted by Sliver

There's a way to penalize your employees for being late.

You have to break their pay out into a base pay and an hourly performance bonus. So if you want to pay them $15 an hour, pay them $10/hour base pay and a $5/hour performance bonus. Clearly lay out your expectations for them to receive their performance bonus (e.g. no more than 15 late minutes within a pay period, no theft, no quitting without notice, no drugs, etc.). If they don't meet your criteria, dock them all or some of their performance bonus.

Dock that bonus once and you'll whip everybody into shape. Or they'll quit. Either way, the problem will be taken care of.

we have discussed how an employee being late theoretically "adds up" to money lots due to time they are being paid, and not working...but how much time would an employer have to spend monkeying around with this garbage, in order to prevent employees from being late?

id be curious to know the turnover rate of the job these people are performing. And for anyone who says they "were always 15 minutes early for every shift with their little pads of paper and pants on tight with their little uniform all pressed" is either a) lying or b) has zero grasp of the impact their job has.

i think keeping this a pet peeve and loosening your collar a bit might be more beneficial in the long run. Would you rather have employees who feel they have a bit of wiggle room, or two employees who loath you because your an asshat about 5 minutes? Likewise, pissing THEM off and having them quit will cost you time training, finding a replacement, doing the job yourself for a period of time if need-be etc etc

i should say, this is all in terms of an hourly based "job" for a young person...not an actual career...

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Young-Sneezy

we have discussed how an employee being late theoretically "adds up" to money lots due to time they are being paid, and not working...but how much time would an employer have to spend monkeying around with this garbage, in order to prevent employees from being late?

id be curious to know the turnover rate of the job these people are performing. And for anyone who says they "were always 15 minutes early for every shift with their little pads of paper and pants on tight with their little uniform all pressed" is either a) lying or b) has zero grasp of the impact their job has.

i think keeping this a pet peeve and loosening your collar a bit might be more beneficial in the long run. Would you rather have employees who feel they have a bit of wiggle room, or two employees who loath you because your an asshat about 5 minutes? Likewise, pissing THEM off and having them quit will cost you time training, finding a replacement, doing the job yourself for a period of time if need-be etc etc

i should say, this is all in terms of an hourly based "job" for a young person...not an actual career...

The performance pay system takes no administrative time whatsoever.

I do agree with you that people showing up for work 15 minutes early or more is bizarre. I would way rather spend that time with my family or by myself than show up for work early. I've never understood the people that do that and I find they usually want a pat on the back for it, which is even more annoying.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Young-Sneezy

we have discussed how an employee being late theoretically "adds up" to money lots due to time they are being paid, and not working...but how much time would an employer have to spend monkeying around with this garbage, in order to prevent employees from being late?

id be curious to know the turnover rate of the job these people are performing. And for anyone who says they "were always 15 minutes early for every shift with their little pads of paper and pants on tight with their little uniform all pressed" is either a) lying or b) has zero grasp of the impact their job has.

i think keeping this a pet peeve and loosening your collar a bit might be more beneficial in the long run. Would you rather have employees who feel they have a bit of wiggle room, or two employees who loath you because your an asshat about 5 minutes? Likewise, pissing THEM off and having them quit will cost you time training, finding a replacement, doing the job yourself for a period of time if need-be etc etc

i should say, this is all in terms of an hourly based "job" for a young person...not an actual career...

Also, being a boss is harder than you think. You may think you're being Mr. Cool Guy by letting somebody be five minutes late everyday, but you're actually pissing everybody else off that shows up on time - "he's late and doesn't get in trouble, so why do I have to show up on time?!" So sometimes even though you don't care, you have to drop the hammer to make everybody else happy.

[TylerSVT]

Originally Posted by Sample00

ok, gonna vent a bit here and its gonna sound like I'm the old guy and whats up with the new generation.

I have two employees, both are 22 years of age.

one starts at 8:00AM, the other at 12:00PM (noon). Both arrive for work either at the scheduled time of 8 and noon or slightly thereafter, typically within a few minutes.

Here's the part that drives me crazy...their shift starts at those times, in other words, be here ready to work at those times. Not come in at 8 and 12, take your coat off, get coffee, socialize, eat your breakfast/lunch, etc.

I have jokingly commented on these on a couple of occasions hoping they would get the hint but it seems that I may have to be a bit more forceful in my remarks.

Personally, even as a teenager, I was always at work 15-20 minutes early. Finding out what needed to be done, socialized, had a coffee but when my shift started I was working.

Please tell me this tardiness isnt the norm for our newest generation.

thoughts?

IMO this is how everyone is. Corporate america is about appearing to do good in leu of actually doing good.

Most people would rather coast through making a comfortable living than pushing hard and maybe excelling.

[pylon]

I honestly think this is a bit of a generational thing. There definitely seems to be a shift in the quality and productivity of employees in the last generation. In fact we had a huge discussion about this is our last mangement meeting. Work ethic seems to be the biggie, as a lot of the new hires don't understand that going the extra mile, or working a few extra minutes, or hours, without being asked, is what makes a good managerial candidate. It shows you care for the company, and yourself. We are also having the same problems with people obeying the house rules and policies, and punctuality is defintely one of the big problems that seem to have surfaced the last 5 years or so.

A lot of it I think has to do with the pussification of employers, and managers nowadays. Everyone in trying to create these super cool neato places to work, and laying out the red carpet for employees, and are getting walked on in the process by setting this new precedent, that the employees are doing the employer a favour by being there, when in reality, it should be the other way around.

I worked for a guy in the early-mid 90's when I was in my late teens early 20's who was f'n old school. I was a total smart ass but the guy thought I had potential, and decided instead of firing me, he was going to reform me. I was a minute late, I lost an hour for every minute on my paycheque, well I was never late ever.. after the first paycheque I lost 7 hours. I was showing up ushaven quite often. So one day he pulls out a rusty bic razor, handed me the gojo pumice hand cleaner, and told me to go shave in the bathroom. I laughed and he said "if yout think this is funny, pack your sh*t, go home, and don't come back." I shaved that day with a the rusty razor and gojo, and never showed up ever again unshaven. The store opened at 7:30, and the floors had to be mopped, swept, and all the displays wiped down before the store was unlocked, and a customer came in. If it wasn't done, I had to also clean the crappers as well when he got in at 8:00. Eventually I ended up runing the guys franchise and got picked off as a district manager on the corporate side a few years later.

Looking back now, I look at Vic as the best employer I ever had, because I learned how to become a company guy, and follow the company rules. I have the same respect for my employers now, as I did for him. It was his money, and he made the rules. Also, I learned so much from that guy about running a business it was scary. I owe everything I have now to the guy in one way or another, as much as an ass as he was sometimes, now we are great friends.

I almost wish some of the young guys that work for me now, would have to endure a boss like that for a year or so as some sort of work boot camp, to show them what working hard is really about. Unfortunately, most people nowadays would just tell the guy to F'off, then go home and write mean things on facebook about him.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Pylon, the problem is that the mom and pop type shops with employers like Vic don't exist anymore.

Why would I want to put in an extra second, minute, hour or whatever for an employer who is a giant faceless corp and doesn't give two hoots about me?

The only motivation is promotion. There is no such thing as loyalty anymore.

Maybe I'm being a little black and white but generally I think this is true.

[burn_this_city]

Every generation claims the one coming up behind them is lazy in comparison. Its really quite comical, and I bet mine will do the same thing. I guess as people get older they become so enthralled with their job they become petty about minor things. I would rather have a productive employee whos 5 minutes late everyday, than a luke warm body who is always punctual.

[Sample00]

carrying on from Pylon a bit, as I had an employer just like that as a youngster, I believe that the boom of a few years ago made employees into the individuals they are today.

A few years back, if you didnt like your job or somebody offer you a dollar an hour more, you simply left. Employers were at the mercy of the employees.

I believe things have shifted back a bit now but some of the younger generation isnt seeing it. There seems to be a feeling of entitlement and that is very unfortunate.

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Sample00

carrying on from Pylon a bit, as I had an employer just like that as a youngster, I believe that the boom of a few years ago made employees into the individuals they are today.

The boom transformed a lot of companies too. It made them realize they had to do better than a pay cheque to retain employees. If they wanted to retain workers then they had to be better at catering to their employees and provide a better working environment with greater flexibility. No one wants to be treated like a child when it comes to working hours, especially when you spend a significant portion of your life at your job.

I'm not saying that what your employees do is right or wrong because I only know some of the details. But if they are getting the job done and going to bat for you when it really matters, then what's the big deal?

[burn_this_city]

I've actually already started doing it. I look at high school kids now with disgust especially lazy/useless ones in the service industry.