Tiger Woods "Transgressions" Thread - Golfin' Ain't Easy

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Now THAT would be some to see. Ratings for the next tournament would go through the roof!

The ratings for Tiger's return tournament are going to be absolutely insane, add in some ear biting and satellites might explode.

[HOOT]

Phil Knight, Nike Chariman said it best:

When his career is over, you'll look back on these indiscretions as a minor blip, but the media is making a big deal out of it right now.

[Bill Bumface]

This thread is going down hill

Every day I look forward to more scandal. More revealed transgressions. More revealing photos. Nothing

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Well Tyson's wreak started with the rape, as Tigers wreak started with his cheating on his wife. To me that is what I am looking at.

Comparing the two is stupid and as you can see I'm not the only one who took it that way.

Mike Tyson's problems away from the ring started long before his rape conviction. The rape was just the icing on the cake.

The height of his accomplishments will always be decreased because of his other problems.... And I believe it will be so with Tiger now. People will always remember.... just like they do with Tyson, Pete Rose, and perhaps even Bobby Hull (re: accusations that he beat his wife).

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Mike Tyson's problems away from the ring started long before his rape conviction. The rape was just the icing on the cake.

The height of his accomplishments will always be decreased because of his other problems.... And I believe it will be so with Tiger now. People will always remember.... just like they do with Tyson, Pete Rose, and perhaps even Bobby Hull (re: accusations that he beat his wife).

Of course people will remember it, and they shouldn't forget. What he did was a selfish act that is not only going to cost him money (like he cares) and probably his marriage and kids.

What I'm saying is Tyson is not equal it Tiger, not even close.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Phil Knight, Nike Chariman said it best:

Of course the Chairman of Nike is going to say that. Nike has invested millions in the Tiger Woods brand. Tiger Woods IS the Nike golf brand. Knight couldn't possibly say anything else. All Knight is doing is trying to reassure the Nike share holders.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Of course people will remember it, and they shouldn't forget. What he did was a selfish act that is not only going to cost him money (like he cares) and probably his marriage and kids.

What I'm saying is Tyson is not equal it Tiger, not even close.

No... their crimes/actions may not be equal but the end result may indeed be.

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

What's the biggest controversy in Tyson's career? In Tiger's?

Point made.

That is completely and intentionally missing the point.

The point is that some athletes can have their achievements, arguably no matter how significant, overshadowed by extra curricular activities.

What they did off the field is for the most part completely irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not those actions are so well known and focused on in the public/media that over time the sport actions become secondary.

In fact I think your point completely supports my post. Define "biggest". Most heinous? Sure Tyson wins but that is irrelevant. If by biggest you mean most concentrated on by media and fans then you are right my point is made.

Take Barry Bonds vs Tyson. By your logic Bonds on field activities are still bigger than his off field activities because he didn't rape anyone.

IMO that is totally false. Bonds, just like Tyson, has had his sporting accomplishments totally overshadowed by his steroid use off the field.


I'll say again, your argument that the severity of the action is important is irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not that action overshadows the accomplishment. More heinous actions do tend to receive more attention but are not necessary for accomplishments to be overshadowed by other activities.

Rerun has a reasonable point that it is possible that Tiger's extra curricular activities could overshadow his golfing achievements.

You may not agree that it will and I don't necessarily think that it will but using the argument that since Tiger didn't rape anyone it is impossible to have his achievements overshadowed is ######ed.


Is it conceivable that Tigers extra curricular activities could overshadow his golf career, much the same way Tyson's activities overshadowed his career? Yes.

Is it likely? I don't think so, but it is possible.

Do the severity and number of extra curricular activities matter? Sure, but that isn't the be all end all. What matters most is how much attention those actions get.


I think if Tiger comes back in a few months or even a year and plays lights out and breaks all the records and performs as if nothing happened these activities will fade.

If he comes back in a few months or a year, or even not at all, and never regains his champion form I definitely think that much like Tyson, he'll be known for his extra curricular activities more than his golfing achievements.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

That is completely and intentionally missing the point.

The point is that some athletes can have their achievements, arguably no matter how significant, overshadowed by extra curricular activities.

What they did off the field is for the most part completely irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not those actions are so well known and focused on in the public/media that over time the sport actions become secondary.

In fact I think your point completely supports my post. Define "biggest". Most heinous? Sure Tyson wins but that is irrelevant. If by biggest you mean most concentrated on by media and fans then you are right my point is made.

Take Barry Bonds vs Tyson. By your logic Bonds on field activities are still bigger than his off field activities because he didn't rape anyone.

IMO that is totally false. Bonds, just like Tyson, has had his sporting accomplishments totally overshadowed by his steroid use off the field.


I'll say again, your argument that the severity of the action is important is irrelevant. All that matters is whether or not that action overshadows the accomplishment. More heinous actions do tend to receive more attention but are not necessary for accomplishments to be overshadowed by other activities.

Rerun has a reasonable point that it is possible that Tiger's extra curricular activities could overshadow his golfing achievements.

You may not agree that it will and I don't necessarily think that it will but using the argument that since Tiger didn't rape anyone it is impossible to have his achievements overshadowed is ######ed.


Is it conceivable that Tigers extra curricular activities could overshadow his golf career, much the same way Tyson's activities overshadowed his career? Yes.

Is it likely? I don't think so, but it is possible.

Do the severity and number of extra curricular activities matter? Sure, but that isn't the be all end all. What matters most is how much attention those actions get.


I think if Tiger comes back in a few months or even a year and plays lights out and breaks all the records and performs as if nothing happened these activities will fade.

If he comes back in a few months or a year, or even not at all, and never regains his champion form I definitely think that much like Tyson, he'll be known for his extra curricular activities more than his golfing achievements.

Holy missing the point Batman.

Hoot's point was that you can't equate Tiger to Tyson as one involves affairs and one involves rape. Tyson's non-sports reputation is largely defined by 2 things, rape and spousal abuse. Tiger's is defined by cheating. There's no comparison there. The argument isn't about overshadowing sporting achievements, it's about referencing a convicted felon as if it's in the same ballpark.

BTW, it's hilarious that you refer to Bonds' steroid use as an "off the field" issue.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Rerun

No... their crimes/actions may not be equal but the end result may indeed be.

You don't honestly believe that do you?

Tyson is a pariah, a convicted rapist who has been accused of beating his wife. The guy is bankrupt and can barely make a living, he is generally considered to be a freak show and really only gets paid when he acts as such.

Are you seriously arguing that could be the end result for Tiger? Sure he's going to take a big hit here, but he's not going to become a person that people will shun like the plague simply because he screwed around on his wife.

If you're just talking about the overshadowing of sporting accomplishments I think you're still going a bit overboard. Tyson's whole legacy involved violence, it's almost impossible to talk about his in ring violence without thinking about his personal life violence. Tiger's legacy and his indiscretions don't share that parallel, in 20 years you can tell Tiger's story without this period dominating it (assuming he comes back and plays like he did). With Tyson violence and craziness runs throughout the entire story.

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

Holy missing the point Batman.

Hoot's point was that you can't equate Tiger to Tyson as one involves affairs and one involves rape. Tyson's non-sports reputation is largely defined by 2 things, rape and spousal abuse. Tiger's is defined by cheating. There's no comparison there. The argument isn't about overshadowing sporting achievements, it's about referencing a convicted felon as if it's in the same ballpark.

BTW, it's hilarious that you refer to Bonds' steroid use as an "off the field" issue.

WTF are you talking about? Yes that is EXACTLY what this is about.

Here is the original post:

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think a better analogy is that Woods might become the Mike Tyson of golf. After he retires, his golf accomplishments might be over shadowed by his "extra curricular" activities. Everyone will be impressed by his records but will smirk when they think of the man.

I don't know how you still aren't getting the original point made by Rerun. No one was equating their actions!!!

The comparison was to how the actions overshadowed the accomplishments.

You can argue the fact that what Tyson did was worse all day long, it doesn't change the fact that NO ONE said their actions were comparable, only that the effect those actions had on overshadowing the accomplishments could be similar.

[Zevo]

Until Tiger bites off somebodies bodypart, does a fews years in federal prison and comes out with tatooes all over his face, and rants about killing another golfers family and eating thier children during a press conference, he doesn't deserve to be compared in any way, shape, or form to Mike Tyson.
He cheated on his wife. The aftermath won't be nearly as nasty as Mike Tysons.( As long as the worst has been revealed.)

[HOOT]

I just had a vision of Tiger sitting up on the press table telling a reporter he is going to eat this babies....didn't have the same effect as Tyson. Probably one of my most favorite moments in sports press conference history.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Until Tiger bites off somebodies bodypart, does a fews years in federal prison and comes out with tatooes all over his face, and rants about killing another golfers family and eating thier children during a press conference, he doesn't deserve to be compared in any way, shape, or form to Mike Tyson.
He cheated on his wife. The aftermath won't be nearly as nasty as Mike Tysons.( As long as nothing really freaky comes out.)

Nobody did compare Tiger to Tyson. At least not their actions.

A comparison was made to how Tyson's sporting achievements were overshadowed by his extra curricular activities.

This has nothing to do with whether or not Tiger's actions were similar, comparable or at all relateable to Tyson's actions. Cheating on your wife does not equal raping a woman.

What is arguably comparable is the possibility of actions off the field overshadowing actions on the field. As I've already stated, to say that Tiger's on field achievements cannot be overshadowed because he didn't do things as heinous as Tyson is totally missing the point.

Arguing about who did worse is a moot point, we all know the answer is Tyson.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flip

This has nothing to do with whether or not Tiger's actions were similar, comparable or at all relateable to Tyson's actions. Cheating on your wife does not equal raping a woman.

Why not? I would think the extreme of incident would play a huge part into how people remember it and how it effects his legacy.

When people think Tyson they think ear biting, raping, convicted felon, etc. When people think about Tiger in 10 years it will be for him being a golf legend, oh and he cheated on his wife.

This will be nothing more than a small mark on an amazing golf career.

[flip]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Why not? I would think the extreme of incident would play a huge part into how people remember it and how it effects his legacy.

When people think Tyson they think ear biting, raping, convicted felon, etc. When people think about Tiger in 10 years it will be for him being a golf legend, oh and he cheated on his wife.

This will be nothing more than a small mark on an amazing golf career.

I think this most likely will blow over but only if Tiger comes back and resumes owning the PGA.

Extreme incidents are more likely to be remembered, however not a necessity.

In 10 years it is quite likely that no one will care about Tiger cheating on his wife.

I still don't see how you and several other posters got the impression that anyone compared raping a woman to cheating on your wife.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flip

I still don't see how you and several other posters got the impression that anyone compared raping a woman to cheating on your wife.

He was saying Tiger's career would be remembered like Tyson's career because of reasons away from their sport. I'll still be watching highlights of Tyson's train wreak of a life when I'm 70 years old and I'll be comparing Tiger's and Jack's careers when I'm 70 to the newest great thing to come to the links.

They are just no way close to either other and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breathe when you are thinking how he will be remembered.

[T@T]

After listening to the broken record that is Jim Rome for 6 straight days now I decided to phone in and tell him to STFU and go on to something else for at least part of the show and was told "we don't take calls on our programing decisions" I started to argue and told him:

Hey, we get it, Rome loves his wife, he doesn't screw around and either does his wife, but we don't need to hear the same crap over and over and over!

At that point the dude hung up on me

Then I promptly phoned in and renewed my cirius sat radio....puck Rome, he's a anyway.

[flip]

Originally Posted by HOOT

He was saying Tiger's career would be remembered like Tyson's career because of reasons away from their sport. I'll still be watching highlights of Tyson's train wreak of a life when I'm 70 years old and I'll be comparing Tiger's and Jack's careers when I'm 70 to the newest great thing to come to the links.

They are just no way close to either other and shouldn't be mentioned in the same breathe when you are thinking how he will be remembered.

Well he was saying Tiger's career COULD be overshadowed, not would be but other than that I mostly agree. My only sentiment was that saying the possible overshadowing of their careers could be similar is not even close to saying that the ACTUAL things they did are the same.

If we completely take away the Tyson reference I think the point can still be argued that Tiger is in at least some danger of overshadowing his career with his extra curricular activities.

Adding in the "just like what happened to Tyson" was just for reference.

In no way was it ever meant (I think) to suggest that their actions were equally deserving of attention or disgust.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by flip

I totally agree.

This is almost signature worthy.

...I think the point can still be argued that Tiger is in at least some danger of overshadowing his career with his extra curricular activities.

This is where I disagree. I don't think that cheating on his wife, porn stars or not, that it will actually overshadow his career when he comes back and wins again. If he quit right now, then it may because it will be people's lasting impression of him, not limping on a broken leg to win the US Open.

I just don't believe that this incident could over shadow Tiger's career, as Tyson's career was overshadowed.