Sam Bennett Value: Have the Flames held on TOO long? OR is he awesome?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He didn't play much with Brouwer this year. He even played more with Jagr.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...es=2017-2018:R

Yes precisely, I know it’s pretty much a given here to blame Brouwer for everything wrong with this team: The season, the powerplay, Sam Bennett and etc. But it’s just 100% not the case. Guy isn’t worth the contract, he’s slow, lacks finish and he should be bought out in 2019, but he’s not the only reason why we sucked this season.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Karl

Aside from the 1st 2 weeks when he was first called up and was on fire, Hathaway mostly was really bad after that for the rest of the year.

Yeah, you are right. He was disappointing after lighting it up with Mangiapane and Jankowski.

[dammage79]

Sam Bennett needs stability from his coach. Him and Janko were jiving a fair bit last year with some point producing success. But I contend that they had far more going on together in the overall big picture of the game. Bennett needs to reel in the penalties and like other have said slow the game down in his head. Once that happens we will have in my estimation a Logan Couture type.

[iloveicedhockey]

Alright, no need to get sassy, I've admitted my lazy generalization was a mistake.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Karl

Aside from the 1st 2 weeks when he was first called up and was on fire, Hathaway mostly was really bad after that for the rest of the year.

Guy definitely isn’t a 3rd liner. He should be the team’s 12th forward who sits in the press box occasionally so that he comes out like a fireball after getting scratched.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Guy definitely isn’t a 3rd liner. He should be the team’s 12th forward who sits in the press box occasionally so that he comes out like a fireball after getting scratched.

I agree with this. He has games/stretches where's he's everywhere and has opposition players on the look out, like our own little Tom Wilson, but then he fades. He should definitely be playing for his job every time he's on the ice. Definite reflection on our bottom 6 he got pretty comfortable last year.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Guy definitely isn’t a 3rd liner. He should be the team’s 12th forward who sits in the press box occasionally so that he comes out like a fireball after getting scratched.

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I agree with this. He has games/stretches where's he's everywhere and has opposition players on the look out, like our own little Tom Wilson, but then he fades. He should definitely be playing for his job every time he's on the ice. Definite reflection on our bottom 6 he got pretty comfortable last year.

I think they should move on from Hathaway. Other than his house on fire start for 2 weeks when he first got called up, he's been mostly garbage.

He's done nothing to show me he can be NHL calibre, and at 27 years old, he likely never will be.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Karl

I think they should move on from Hathaway. Other than his house on fire start for 2 weeks when he first got called up, he's been mostly garbage.

He's done nothing to show me he can be NHL calibre, and at 27 years old, he likely never will be.

He'd be a great full time 4th liner. Thats it, that's all. It where his game is taylored for.

With Stajan likely gone Having something like Lazar-Hathaway-whoever on the 4th line would be a good thing.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by dammage79

He'd be a great full time 4th liner. Thats it, that's all. It where his game is taylored for.

With Stajan likely gone Having something like Lazar-Hathaway-whoever on the 4th line would be a good thing.

Nope. Not my 4th line. AHL or goodbye.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If Bennett played for a different team, how many people here would put $1,000 on him reaching 50 pts within the next three seasons?

Why can't fans just admit when they're being fans, and stop getting angry at people who are trying to look at this dispassionately and realistically?

Why must you look down on fans for being fans?
Its sports for Pete’s sake
Have some fun with it.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

This is the reason why most of us were irate with the way GG was utilizing Brouwer. GG was gifting PP and top6 minutes to Brouwer when he had done nothing to prove he deserved it.

Which brings us back to the issue of, why should we gift Bennett favorable situations when he's done nothing to prove he deserves it either?

Look at Vegas; Many of those guys probably were not given the same opportunities they got in Vegas. If we want Bennett to develop and gain confidence in the NHL we need to let him loose and see what he has got at some point.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Stanley

It's pretty sad that Bennett has essentially become a "throw in" in a trade

Only in the minds of some fans

[Bingo]

I honestly think there are some that are so disappointed that he's not a star that's it's clouding him to the negative.

He's 21 with three seasons under his belt
He's averaged roughly 30 points a season
He makes 1.9M
He has speed, hands, jam.

This is the kind of player the Flames would be looking at to upgrade the third line, and perhaps unearth a kid that could move into a second line role.

Why trade the one you have as a "throw in"?

Park the emotion people.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Why must you look down on fans for being fans?
Its sports for Pete’s sake
Have some fun with it.

You've got the wrong end of the stick. It's the people who offer realistic analysis and projections who get torched on this forum. This is the way things go around here:

1. Someone asks for assessments of the team or a player.
2. People offer various opinions, ranging from the wildly optimistic to the pessimistic.
3. The less optimistic opinions come under fire for being wrong. Not for being unfun, mind you, but for being bad assessments.
4. Person who offered the less optimistic opinion defends his choice and questions how realistic the fannish opinions are.
5. Y U ruining all the funz!?!?

I've long advocated that if people want positive only threads, they should tag them as such. It's also worth pointing out that the people who post the most fanboyish stuff often don't come across as particularly happy or lighthearted. Some of the angriest posters here are the ones who routinely get furious at anyone who doesn't share their assessment of how great a Flames player is. Maybe they're the ones who should lighten up. It's only sports.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You've got the wrong end of the stick. It's the people who offer realistic analysis and projections who get torched on this forum. This is the way things go around here:

1. Someone asks for assessments of the team or a player.
2. People offer various opinions, ranging from the wildly optimistic to the pessimistic.
3. The less optimistic opinions come under fire for being wrong. Not for being unfun, mind you, but for being bad assessments.
4. Person who offered the less optimistic opinion defends his choice and questions how realistic the fannish opinions are.
5. Y U ruining all the funz!?!?

I've long advocated that if people want positive only threads, they should tag them as such. It's also worth pointing out that the people who post the most fanboyish stuff often don't come across as particularly happy or lighthearted. Some of the angriest posters here are the ones who routinely get furious at anyone who doesn't share their assessment of how great a Flames player is. Maybe they're the ones who should lighten up. It's only sports.

You're applying your own filter to where the line between pessimistic becomes realistic and realistic becomes optimistic.

I see outlandishly optimistic opinions attacked all the time, so I don't agree.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I honestly think there are some that are so disappointed that he's not a star that's it's clouding him to the negative.

He's 21 with three seasons under his belt
He's averaged roughly 30 points a season
He makes 1.9M
He has speed, hands, jam.

This is the kind of player the Flames would be looking at to upgrade the third line, and perhaps unearth a kid that could move into a second line role.

Why trade the one you have as a "throw in"?

Park the emotion people.

It's not at all unusual for two teams to swap underachieving/disappointing young players in the hopes that a change of scenery will spark an improvement. That's because a change of scenery often does spark an improvement. Treliving was certainly hoping for the 'change of scenery' effect when he traded for Lazar.

Maybe there's a deal out there where another GM thinks Bennett has 40-50 point potential, and he's willing to move something that the Flames feel has a better chance of panning out in Calgary than Bennett does. And if Bennett does pan out in the new team, that doesn't mean he would have if he stayed in Calgary.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

He almost exclusively played with Jankowski and Hathaway or with Monahan and Gaudreau. I’m of the opinion that you don’t give more ice time to players just to improve their stats, you give more ice time to players who deserve it.

If Sam Bennett plays more or higher up the line up next season, it should be because he earned it.

He played roughly 11 GAMES over the course of the season on a line with JG and SM and not all of that time was a full game on their line. How is that considered "exclusively"

These games came in the LAST QUARTER of the season meaning the season was already basically over at this point. Sean was injured and not playing up to par, Johnny's game had slowed down (PPG wise) and yet Bennett didn't look out of place and often times he looked like he was driving the line to some extent.

The kid has skills, his hockey IQ is probably the only knock that holds some merit but I think the right coach and the right opportunity (He's an emotional player) would do the kid wonders.

I don't believe for a second that if he was given the same leash Ferland received getting top 6 minutes CONSISTENTLY for 2 straight quarters that he wouldn't produce playing along side skilled teammates. He's had flashes of taking over games single handily, he's shown some real solid chemistry with JG when Sean went down. This includes PP time on a PP that produces, lots of these comparables people have thrown out with more points have players who get frequent PP time on teams who's PP actually works.

I think if you took our current lineup and put a 2nd line together like below we'd be looking at a solid group able to put up some serious points and play with an edge every night.

Tkachuk - Bennett - Scoring Winger (Hoffman/Josh Anderson/James Neal)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Royle9

He played roughly 11 GAMES over the course of the season on a line with JG and SM and not all of that time was a full game on their line. How is that considered "exclusively"

These games came in the LAST QUARTER of the season meaning the season was already basically over at this point. Sean was injured and not playing up to par, Johnny's game had slowed down (PPG wise) and yet Bennett didn't look out of place and often times he looked like he was driving the line to some extent.

The kid has skills, his hockey IQ is probably the only knock that holds some merit but I think the right coach and the right opportunity (He's an emotional player) would do the kid wonders.

I don't believe for a second that if he was given the same leash Ferland received getting top 6 minutes CONSISTENTLY for 2 straight quarters that he wouldn't produce playing along side skilled teammates. He's had flashes of taking over games single handily, he's shown some real solid chemistry with JG when Sean went down. This includes PP time on a PP that produces, lots of these comparables people have thrown out with more points have players who get frequent PP time on teams who's PP actually works.

I think if you took our current lineup and put a 2nd line together like below we'd be looking at a solid group able to put up some serious points and play with an edge every night.

Tkachuk - Bennett - Scoring Winger (Hoffman/Josh Anderson/James Neal)

If you want to see why Bennett doesn't consistently get top line icetime, look at the PIMs column.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you want to see why Bennett doesn't consistently get top line icetime, look at the PIMs column.

Okay? So Sam's high PIM = Why he is justifiably not getting top 6 time for all the right reasons?

Sam Bennett - 59PIM

Let's compare: (Flames Only)

Matthew Tkachuk - 62
Mark Giordano - 63
Mikael Backlund - 78
Travis Hamonic - 79

Other Playes(Top 6 Role):

Evgeni Malkin - 87
Evander Kane - 82
Milan Lucic - 80 (arguably not a top 6 but is on EDM)
Ryan Johansen - 78
Max Domi - 73 (many want him on the flames)
Steven Stamkos - 72
Nick Ritchie - 72 (top 9 for arguments sake)
Alexander Radulov - 72
Corey Perry - 71
Dylan Larkin - 61

Players like Simmonds, Hornqvist, Brayden Schenn, MacKinnon, Trochek, Jamie Benn are literally 1-5 PIM's lower then Bennett.

Many others more suited for top 6-9 rolls then specifically top 6 always.
Regardless, PIM clearly should NOT imply no top 6 time. You've got bonafide ELITE superstars like Malkin and Stamkos putting up more PIM and still getting 1st line/1st PP time and putting up points.

I fail to see how PIM = No time should be given - It's clearly a closed minded evaluation that means very little to most GM's/Coaches/Teams

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Has anyone stopped and wondered if the reason why Bennett hasnt been living up to potential is because he isnt playing with good players? Besides backlund, frolik, monahan, gaudreau, the skill just isnt there. We wont be good for a very long time unfortunately. Unless we can trade gio or dougie for high end offensive help.