2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[David Struch]

LA/CHI working on an Olli Maatta deal.

https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/stat...09404878786563

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

EVERY player has been on a team that fell flat in the playoffs. Every player has been on a team that wasn't performing the way they should, but eventually pulled it together.

Every player believes their team can win (other than while in a full rebuild).

No one could have guessed STL last year. Or Dallas this year. Every year there are surprises.

This idea that players are all going to shun the Flames because they haven't won yet is silly. Sure, some players don't like this team or that team, but for he most part, most players have played with, and are friends with, players from almost every other team.

I didn’t say that players would shun the Flames.

But if I am signing a 1 year contract with the hope of winning the Cup, the Flames aren’t at the top of the list, or, actually, anywhere close to it.


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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

And thinking you can bring your childhood team to that level would be a pretty tempting motivator.

I think it is also pretty clear that NHL players are not all great at evaluating talent or team building. This is evident time and again almost every year when a UFA picks a team because he wants to win, and it is a team that leaves many of us scratching our heads. For all we know Hall will look at Calgary's roster and honestly believe that he could be the missing piece of a championship team. To say he couldn't possibly see this is wrong.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I didn’t say that players would shun the Flames.

But if I am signing a 1 year contract with the hope of winning the Cup, the Flames aren’t at the top of the list, or, actually, anywhere close to it.


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But you are not every NHL player. I think it is entirely possible that the Flames could be at the top of someone's list because he believes they are poised to win.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think it is also pretty clear that NHL players are not all great at evaluating talent or team building. This is evident time and again almost every year when a UFA picks a team because he wants to win, and it is a team that leaves many of us scratching our heads. For all we know Hall will look at Calgary's roster and honestly believe that he could be the missing piece of a championship team. To say he couldn't possibly see this is wrong.

ie: Iggy to Colorado

[Enoch Root]

Is it that players are bad evaluators?

Or is it that, each year, there are 10-15 teams to choose from, and only one wins? And winning requires a lot of things going right, including injuries and a good slice of luck?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Is it that players are bad evaluators?

Or is it that, each year, there are 10-15 teams to choose from, and only one wins? And winning requires a lot of things going right, including injuries and a good slice of luck?

I think it is a combination of a lot of things like you mention. But I also think that there are plenty of players—not all players, obviously—who are in fact bad evaluators. Perhaps this is even the case for more of the highly skilled players, since most of them don't need to be particularly reflective about how to play the game. It may be similar to the reason why great NHL players often make for terrible hockey coaches, and why poor players often make for the best coaches or managers.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by TOfan

ie: Iggy to Colorado

I don’t think Iggy to Colorado was a failure because Iggy isn’t good at talent evaluation.

Their top 3 centres were Duchene, O’Reilly and MacKinnon. Landeskog is captain.

Your buddy Joe Sakic is the GM and Patrick Roy is a former Coach of the Year, and they’re offering you $15M over three years.

It wasn’t an unreasonable gamble.

[blender]

One thing is certain.
Fans are definitely not good evaluators of talent or experts at team building.

It fun to discuss and throw trade ideas around for our own entertainment, but if anyone thinks they know much of anything about how to run an NHL team I've got bad news for you.

Some fans need to stop taking themselves so seriously.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don’t think Iggy to Colorado was a failure because Iggy isn’t good at talent evaluation.

Their top 3 centres were Duchene, O’Reilly and MacKinnon. Landeskog is captain.

Your buddy Joe Sakic is the GM and Patrick Roy is a former Coach of the Year, and they’re offering you $15M over three years.

It wasn’t an unreasonable gamble.

But isn't that really making my point? Yes, Iginla saw a tonne of potential and thought the Avalanche looked like a team that could win now. And yet, in his time with Colorado they finished 20th, 22nd, and 30th. The point is that Iginla DIDN'T see beyond what most fans see, and like most fans, he was completely wrong about where Colorado was in their building cycle.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I don’t think Iggy to Colorado was a failure because Iggy isn’t good at talent evaluation.

Their top 3 centres were Duchene, O’Reilly and MacKinnon. Landeskog is captain.

Your buddy Joe Sakic is the GM and Patrick Roy is a former Coach of the Year, and they’re offering you $15M over three years.

It wasn’t an unreasonable gamble.

If I’m not mistaken the Colorado team that made the playoffs the year before Iggy signed had an unsustainable PDO. They did have some high profile pieces, but their drop the following season(s) was forecasted by many. I remember the day Iggy signed there and there were a lot of people scratching their heads.

To your point though, the margin between winning and losing, aside from the outside fringes of good and bad, is pretty difficult to predict year in year out. Every year it seems there are teams who surprise and make/miss the playoffs or go on a run in the playoffs.

[dino7c]

Iggy went to Colorado to contend and the Flames made it past the first round (something they did one time in Iginla's tenure)

Goes to show

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But you are not every NHL player. I think it is entirely possible that the Flames could be at the top of someone's list because he believes they are poised to win.

My Mother would disagree.


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[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think it is also pretty clear that NHL players are not all great at evaluating talent or team building. This is evident time and again almost every year when a UFA picks a team because he wants to win, and it is a team that leaves many of us scratching our heads. For all we know Hall will look at Calgary's roster and honestly believe that he could be the missing piece of a championship team. To say he couldn't possibly see this is wrong.

If Treliving pulled off a trade for Kuemper at the draft and with us rumored to be in various defensemen, it would only solidify Hall in potentially thinking that as well. I know many balk at us moving a 1st for Kuemper, but in addition to Kuemper, acquiring him could be a catalyst for players seeing Calgary as on the verge and could make us a more likely UFA destination.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But isn't that really making my point? Yes, Iginla saw a tonne of potential and thought the Avalanche looked like a team that could win now. And yet, in his time with Colorado they finished 20th, 22nd, and 30th. The point is that Iginla DIDN'T see beyond what most fans see, and like most fans, he was completely wrong about where Colorado was in their building cycle.

I think we might be over estimating the degree to which Iginla was prioritizing a championship.

He went to Boston on a 1-year to chase a ring, and it didn’t work. He had and still has a young family.

Colorado offered him three years at 35 years old.

They had three franchise centres, Landeskog, Barrie - they had pieces. If they made the right moves, and guys developed right, maybe something could happen.

A guy you trust is in charge at the top. The coach is a legend, though not as a coach.

I don’t think he went there thinking the Avs were on the verge of being the Blackhawks, I think he did it because they offered three years and they had some pretty damn good centre talent to play with.

[TheScorpion]

Time for everybody to place their bets. When will the Flames' next trade be, and what will it be?

My bet is that it won't be until the 2021 trade deadline, when they'll acquire Zack Smith at 50% retained from Chicago in exchange for two 3rds.

[dammage79]

1st Flames deal breaks tomorrow I bet.

And that trade will be for a goalie.....

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by dammage79

1st Flames deal breaks tomorrow I bet.

And that trade will be for a goalie.....

It's going to happen when I'm at my Pop's birthday dinner, that seems to be my luck

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Time for everybody to place their bets. When will the Flames' next trade be, and what will it be?

My bet is that it won't be until the 2021 trade deadline, when they'll acquire Zack Smith at 50% retained from Chicago in exchange for two 3rds.

Should we do a predictions thread for tonight/tomorrow? Toss in some rules?

You can predict:

- Two trades
- Two UFA forwards
- Two UFA defencemen
- One UFA goalie
- Who we pick in the 1st and 2nd round (or if we deal the picks)

and then post your roster?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

1st Flames deal breaks tomorrow I bet.

And that trade will be for a goalie.....

Korpisalo? Keumper? Anderson?