Brad Treliving needs to go

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

After 7 yrs, these are facts

1) Heavily invested in defense first but what we have today is no top pair, a bunch of mediocre dmen. Can’t break out of their zone and certainly can’t defend
2) A top line that has stagnated and not productive for 3 yrs now with no hope of breaking out of their slump
3) The bottom 6 that is amongst the worst in the league with no depth and no help anytime soon
4) A minor league coach that is clueless
5) A lottery team that is no better than when he found it

Now, explain why he is not fired yet

Here's a list of low hanging fruit and recycled complaints.

Look, there is a certain percentage of people on this forum who will find fault in almost anything. They're just wired to incessantly whine and make no mistake, they will start once again if Treliving were to be replaced.

Bottom line, the organization is better today than it was when Treliving took over. Perhaps that is why he has not be fired. We only make our judgements based on what we see from our couch. There is a enormous amount of real estate between what we see/hear and what is actually happening in the offices of the Saddledome. How is Treliving evaluated? How is he evaluated by the fans, which should mean next to nothing, vs how is he evaluated by the organization? I bet there is a substantial difference.

If you want the truth of it though, you would have to ask Bean or Edwards. Good luck.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Here's a list of low hanging fruit and recycled complaints.

Look, there is a certain percentage of people on this forum who will find fault in almost anything. They're just wired to incessantly whine and make no mistake, they will start once again if Treliving were to be replaced.

Bottom line, the organization is better today than it was when Treliving took over. Perhaps that is why he has not be fired. We only make our judgements based on what we see from our couch. There is a enormous amount of real estate between what we see/hear and what is actually happening in the offices of the Saddledome. How is Treliving evaluated? How is he evaluated by the fans, which should mean next to nothing, vs how is he evaluated by the organization? I bet there is a substantial difference.

If you want the truth of it though, you would have to ask Bean or Edwards. Good luck.

Why do you think the team is better today then on the day he took over?

On ice performance we are not. Cap flexibility we are not. Prospects - Arguable but I would say on par (Most people have us ranked in the 20th range for farm system)

What is the 'better' in your mind?

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

After 7 yrs, these are facts

1) Heavily invested in defense first but what we have today is no top pair, a bunch of mediocre dmen. Can’t break out of their zone and certainly can’t defend
2) A top line that has stagnated and not productive for 3 yrs now with no hope of breaking out of their slump
3) The bottom 6 that is amongst the worst in the league with no depth and no help anytime soon
4) A minor league coach that is clueless
5) A lottery team that is no better than when he found it

Now, explain why he is not fired yet

1) the D core is extremely young and this is a transition year due to Gio regessing, and with Brodie and Hamonic moving on. Lots of Upside in Andersson 24, Hanifin 24, Valimaki 22 there are going to be growing pains when promonent NHLers have their minutes replaced by younger players. How old was Gio when he broke out? Lots of D men don't figure it out until ages 27-30. There are also some interesting young pieces behind them (Mackey, Kuznetsov, Poirier)
2) Agreed our main issue is an ineffective 1st line who have regressed for 2 straight years now. I still think Gaudreau is an elite hockey player, but I think Monahan fell off a cliff. This line gets dominated by third lines in playoffs 5v5 this is the biggest failing and hardest thing to find/develop.
3) Disagree. If you want to complain about our 4th line sure. But Backlund, Dube, Lucic, Bennett, Leivo is not a terrible combination for a 3rd line. 4th line without Ryan I see your point.
4) Agree not happy with coach, I would have preferred Bruce Boudreau or Gerard Gallant
5) Western conference championship, playoffs in 4/6 years after taking over a team on a rebuild and drafted in his first draft the highest pick in franchise history. Team is still fairly young, Core under 30 except for Gio who really isn't part of the core anymore.

Overall I think he is an above average GM, and I would allow him to rebuild. There are some good pieces but the main issue on this team is the lack of a top line. That is extremely hard to fix without drafting at the top of the first round. If we do a full rebuild why wouldn't you want him drafting? Look at his drafting track record... very impressive.

NHLers -Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Dube, Andersson, Valimaki, Fox
NHLers but underachieving - Bennett, Kylington

Good prospects in system - Pelltier, Zary, Phillips, Wolf, Kuznetsov, Petterson.

If we are doing a rebuild I would like him to be in control of our drafting. He has missed on goalies and that is my biggest concern - McDonald and Parsons

[Red]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You basing your opinion on success being linear, it's not.

Were Hamilton, Lindholm, Hanifin, Markstrom, Tkachuk, not very important pieces? Where are you drawing the line on this supposed 'very important piece'? Seems like Treliving has sought out and acquired several very important pieces and I am sure he will again.

We know you don't like to stoop to this level, seeing as your smarter than the rest of us 11 year olds, but when your done patting yourself on the back perhaps you can humor us and let us know what you think the Flames should give up for Eichel.

Eichel is not being traded. Perhaps you want to join me in real world and not one of delusion.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Here's a list of low hanging fruit and recycled complaints.

Look, there is a certain percentage of people on this forum who will find fault in almost anything. They're just wired to incessantly whine and make no mistake, they will start once again if Treliving were to be replaced.

Bottom line, the organization is better today than it was when Treliving took over. Perhaps that is why he has not be fired. We only make our judgements based on what we see from our couch. There is a enormous amount of real estate between what we see/hear and what is actually happening in the offices of the Saddledome. How is Treliving evaluated? How is he evaluated by the fans, which should mean next to nothing, vs how is he evaluated by the organization? I bet there is a substantial difference.

If you want the truth of it though, you would have to ask Bean or Edwards. Good luck.

Not exactly sure how you can come to that conclusion. When Treliving took over they were an ascending team. Today they are a declining team. There's not a team in Canada that would trade their roster for the Flames as teams like Ottawa and Vancouver at least know better days are ahead.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Brad, your ticket is booked.

[ricardodw]

I think that Treliving is having difficulty pulling the trigger on making a deal because he has an over inflated infatuation with the team he has.

He is taking 2018-19 as what the players are worth.

Tkachuk 2018-19 for instance had a better season than PLD. If Treliving was involved in the PLD sweepstakes he would have wanted something else back along with PLD. In the Jets situation they traded 2018-20 Laine and not 2016-18 36-44 goal Laine.

The Flames are NOT going to get 2018-19 value for Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau or Gio.

If anyone (Treliving) thinks that they are going to get 2018-19 value for basically any Flame that was on the 2018-19 team they will be disappointed.

Likewise the 2018-19 team is not going to play like it was 2018-19 any time in the future.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not exactly sure how you can come to that conclusion. When Treliving took over they were an ascending team. Today they are a declining team. There's not a team in Canada that would trade their roster for the Flames as teams like Ottawa and Vancouver at least know better days are ahead.

Easy. Playoffs 4 out of 6 years under Treliving. Missed the playoffs 5 straight years prior.

You can argue the Flames are a declining team today, a snap shot in time, but that can change in a hurry. Many good teams have off years and miss the playoffs. Tampa missed in 2017. Dallas missed in 2018.

[Dan403]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I think that Treliving is having difficulty pulling the trigger on making a deal because he has an over inflated infatuation with the team he has.

He is taking 2018-19 as what the players are worth.

Tkachuk 2018-19 for instance had a better season than PLD. If Treliving was involved in the PLD sweepstakes he would have wanted something else back along with PLD. In the Jets situation they traded 2018-20 Laine and not 2016-18 36-44 goal Laine.

The Flames are NOT going to get 2018-19 value for Tkachuk, Monahan, Gaudreau or Gio.

If anyone (Treliving) thinks that they are going to get 2018-19 value for basically any Flame that was on the 2018-19 team they will be disappointed.

Likewise the 2018-19 team is not going to play like it was 2018-19 any time in the future.

Neato theory. Based on what facts?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Easy. Playoffs 4 out of 6 years under Treliving. Missed the playoffs 5 straight years prior.



You can argue the Flames are a declining team today, a snap shot in time, but that can change in a hurry. Many good teams have off years and miss the playoffs. Tampa missed in 2017. Dallas missed in 2018.

Won a measly single round once in those 4 playoff appearances. Embarrased in most of them.

What the Flames are not is a team that are simply having an off year or two. There's a definite pattern and it's not good.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by chedder

Won a measly single round once in those 4 playoff appearances. Embarrased in most of them.

What the Flames are not is a team that are simply having an off year or two. There's a definite pattern and it's not good.

But we did win one playoff round so that was a success. Brad’s guys like Hudler (2nd in playoff scoring) and Wideman and Russell (tied for 3rd in playoff scoring) led the way and it was a fun run.

[ComixZone]

Brad, just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this...and totally redeem yourself!

[ForeverFlameFan]

I wouldn’t go as far as giving Treliving credit on hiring Sutter... This sounds like an ownership move taking action and releasing the terrible hire Treliving made. Is Treliving stubborn? Did ownership see that? Is BT on the hot seat now? Or did BT actually go and get Sutter himself?

[blender]

How does Treliving's contract term line up with Sutter's 3 years?

[getoverit]

3 yr extension in oct 2019 i believe. Ends end of season 22-23. Sutter will still be there when Brads contract is up

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I wouldn’t go as far as giving Treliving credit on hiring Sutter... This sounds like an ownership move taking action and releasing the terrible hire Treliving made. Is Treliving stubborn? Did ownership see that? Is BT on the hot seat now? Or did BT actually go and get Sutter himself?

Treliving has been pretty quick at owning his past mistakes, from Brouwer, to Neal, to Gulutzan. It sure doesn't seem like he is overly stubborn.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Treliving has been pretty quick at owning his past mistakes, from Brouwer, to Neal, to Gulutzan. It sure doesn't seem like he is overly stubborn.

Owns the blatantly obvious elephant in the room mistakes that it’s impossible to ignore unless you are a Republican politician

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Treliving has been pretty quick at owning his past mistakes, from Brouwer, to Neal, to Gulutzan. It sure doesn't seem like he is overly stubborn.

He’s getting faster at it too.

Gulutzan got two full years. Peters got 1.2 seasons (...different circumstances). Ward got something like .9 of a season?

Brouwer got two years. Neal got one.

He’s improving.


**Oh right Ward has only been HC for 24 games. He was interim before that. Tree’s progress is more significant that originally thought!

[MisterJoji]

Hey, I can come back, lol. I don’t think you’ll be able to say we’ve been out coached in anymore games.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

He’s getting faster at it too.

Gulutzan got two full years. Peters got 1.2 seasons (...different circumstances). Ward got something like .9 of a season?

Brouwer got two years. Neal got one.

He’s improving.

24 games

Is that a record?