Brad Treliving needs to go

[Mr.Coffee]

To me it’s pretty obvious a deal with Johnny needs to be made for a wide variety of very good reasons.

Let’s not Iginla this one up please for the love of god.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

I am not 11. I don't play GM. Why is it so hard to get? Read the trade proposals threads here or elsewhere and tell me who in their right mind would want to reduce themselves to discuss them?

To answer the highlighted question, I have nothing to offer. I am just a fan of the team.

So you are unhappy BT didn’t make a trade, you figure there were trades he could have made, but won’t actually say what trade he should have made, or whether a particular trade was possible.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

So you are unhappy BT didn’t make a trade, you figure there were trades he could have made, but won’t actually say what trade he should have made, or whether a particular trade was possible.

Oh, here is what I feel you think is a gotcha question. Newsflash for you. I know as little about what was possible as you do. I know you will deny it, but it is the truth. We dont know what trades were possible and which ones were not We only know what Ward has to dress for the next game. And we know that that is not good

But here is the answer anyways. I am unhappy that after 7 years this team sucks. It is soft and not entertaining at all. During the Treliving tenure there were a number of forwards that changed teams, via trade or free agency, yet, the Calgary Flames continued with the status quo. To add insult to injury, we know that the GM actually tried to get some of these good forwards but came up short. So it wasn't ignorance. It was more like incompetence.

And just to add. If a trade happened, it means that it was possible. You made it sound like it wasn't. Dare to answer why?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Oh, here is what I feel you think is a gotcha question. Newsflash for you. I know as little about what was possible as you do. I know you will deny it, but it is the truth. We dont know what trades were possible and which ones were not We only know what Ward has to dress for the next game. And we know that that is not good

But here is the answer anyways. I am unhappy that after 7 years this team sucks. It is soft and not entertaining at all. During the Treliving tenure there were a number of forwards that changed teams, via trade or free agency, yet, the Calgary Flames continued with the status quo. To add insult to injury, we know that the GM actually tried to get some of these good forwards but came up short. So it wasn't ignorance. It was more like incompetence.

And just to add. If a trade happened, it means that it was possible. You made it sound like it wasn't. Dare to answer why?

You keep arguing against yourself. You don’t know what trades were possible, but since they didn’t happen it’s incompetence.

As for your question, I’m sure a trade was possible. I don’t think a smart trade was possible in many of these cases you’ve brought up. Coming up short just means you wouldn’t outbid someone who you think paid too much.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Early returns:

Jets with PLD 5-2-0

Blue Jackets with Laine and Rosolvic 5-7-2

Jets were already better and play in the North Division...this proves nothing. Compare the players themselves.

If the Oilers traded McDavid to the Redwings for Filpula and then finished higher in the standings that means they won the trade?

[Itse]

Nm.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jets were already better and play in the North Division...this proves nothing. Compare the players themselves.

If the Oilers traded McDavid to the Redwings for Filpula and then finished higher in the standings that means they won the trade?

The Oilers would not finish higher than the Red Wings in that situation though, so not the best example. The Oilers would both lose the trade and finish below the Red Wings in that situation.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

To me it’s pretty obvious a deal with Johnny needs to be made for a wide variety of very good reasons.

Let’s not Iginla this one up please for the love of god.

Gaudreau is 27 not 35, it's not even debateable that he's our most dynamic and gifted forward likely just into his prime so here's an idea, hire a coach with a system that allows players to use their talents instead of turning them into boring robots playing a boring garbage system.

If Gaudreau wants to leave it's the pile of managements fault 100%

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You keep arguing against yourself. You don’t know what trades were possible, but since they didn’t happen it’s incompetence.

As for your question, I’m sure a trade was possible. I don’t think a smart trade was possible in many of these cases you’ve brought up. Coming up short just means you wouldn’t outbid someone who you think paid too much.

Problem is that you listen to the guy and eat up everything he says as some wizardry. I on the other hand let results speak for themselves.
I look at the big picture. Team needs help at F. GM recognizes it, goes after players that can help but ultimately fails to complete any deals because the market is too expensive. The market is the market. Treliving can't change it. He can continue to stay out of it, but that doesn't improve the team now, does it? It's his job to improve the team.

Incompetence? Ya, hard to argue against it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Gaudreau is 27 not 35, it's not even debateable that he's our most dynamic and gifted forward likely just into his prime so here's an idea, hire a coach with a system that allows players to use their talents instead of turning them into boring robots playing a boring garbage system.

If Gaudreau wants to leave it's the pile of managements fault 100%

Combined with an annoying journalist who has been trying to run him out of town. This team should be doing whatever he wants to get him to stay because if he ends up somewhere else I think we are going to see just how Gaudreau is with a functioning team with better linemates.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Gaudreau is 27 not 35, it's not even debateable that he's our most dynamic and gifted forward likely just into his prime so here's an idea, hire a coach with a system that allows players to use their talents instead of turning them into boring robots playing a boring garbage system.

If Gaudreau wants to leave it's the pile of managements fault 100%

People really need to get with the program on Gaudreau. This is basic asset management stuff.

You have a guy who is probably going to leave at the end of the contract. Putting aside that the last contract negotiation did not go amazingly for him (my opinion, I think there is a little bit of bitterness there considering he went and put up $8-10MM/ year numbers over the contract), you need to maximize value with your assets.

Gaudreau will command way more value today, than every day that ticks by. We know we aren’t making playoffs this year or if we do we’ll get creamed- same old story. He’s not the guy to win us a championship. He’s played well this year to be honest so his value should be relatively high again. Sell high.

Or we can watch his value slowly erode until his contract expires and watch him sign elsewhere and get nothing for the asset- and in that time watch the Flames achieve the about the same or possibly worse.

The reason the Iginla return was so lousy was because we waited way way way too long. The time was about a couple weeks to a month ago when it became obvious what this team is. Every day that goes by his value continues to decline.

This version of the Flames is over, with Gaudreau as a cornerstone asset. The faster fans and people realize that the better because maybe just maybe we can actually do something smart for once and get a good return on Gaudreau.

The only way this guy re-signs here is with a crazy overpay. Can you imagine Gaudreau in UFA??? Also do we even want him? Honest question. We know it isn’t working here.

Maximize value. Time to move on.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

Problem is that you listen to the guy and eat up everything he says as some wizardry. I on the other hand let results speak for themselves.
I look at the big picture. Team needs help at F. GM recognizes it, goes after players that can help but ultimately fails to complete any deals because the market is too expensive. The market is the market. Treliving can't change it. He can continue to stay out of it, but that doesn't improve the team now, does it? It's his job to improve the team.

Incompetence? Ya, hard to argue against it.

I don’t listen to “the guy” at all. The reasons for his moves are pretty obvious. And I criticize him plenty - the Neal signing, the Stone contract, etc. And I’ve said a bunch of times that this is a results league and he is missing results so he can go.

You are just making up things to justify a weird dislike for him based on some sort of “incompetence” rationale, when he’s made pretty standard moves. Incompetence is when you don’t know the rules of the CBA, or when you draft a guy so out of position the league laughs at you, not when you fail to overpay for a failed trade you can’t even identify.

If Treliving is always unwilling to pay a price for a player, explain Hamonic, Hamilton, Markstrom, Tanev. Explain the trades people cite as reasons to fire him.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t listen to “the guy” at all. The reasons for his moves are pretty obvious. And I criticize him plenty - the Neal signing, the Stone contract, etc. And I’ve said a bunch of times that this is a results league and he is missing results so he can go.

You are just making up things to justify a weird dislike for him based on some sort of “incompetence” rationale, when he’s made pretty standard moves. Incompetence is when you don’t know the rules of the CBA, or when you draft a guy so out of position the league laughs at you, not when you fail to overpay for a failed trade you can’t even identify.

If Treliving is always unwilling to pay a price for a player, explain Hamonic, Hamilton, Markstrom, Tanev. Explain the trades people cite as reasons to fire him.

He's been trying to build a winning team for 7 years. The team is as bad as it's ever been. That's basically a definition of incompetence.
I don't have a dislike for the guy, I just wanted to point out how he failed to bring that very important piece that's been needed for his entire tenure. I said that after someone pointed out that instead of addressing a need he went out to get Hamonic. Basically reiterating my point that Treliving did not follow his plan.

None of the above trades required a core player to complete the deal, only draft picks and cash. He has dealt many draft picks.

Anyways, I said what I wanted to say. You don't have to agree.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don’t listen to “the guy” at all. The reasons for his moves are pretty obvious. And I criticize him plenty - the Neal signing, the Stone contract, etc. And I’ve said a bunch of times that this is a results league and he is missing results so he can go.

You are just making up things to justify a weird dislike for him based on some sort of “incompetence” rationale, when he’s made pretty standard moves. Incompetence is when you don’t know the rules of the CBA, or when you draft a guy so out of position the league laughs at you, not when you fail to overpay for a failed trade you can’t even identify.

If Treliving is always unwilling to pay a price for a player, explain Hamonic, Hamilton, Markstrom, Tanev. Explain the trades people cite as reasons to fire him.

If BT was the Oilers GM and made all the same moves for the past 7 years and this was the end result we would all be laughing at them and praying they don't fire him.

7 years of no playoff success, team with no cap flexibility, on coach 4, playing the most uninspired, boring, and terrible hockey in the league.

We have become the Oilers we laughed at for the past decade

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If BT was the Oilers GM and made all the same moves for the past 7 years and this was the end result we would all be laughing at them and praying they don't fire him.

7 years of no playoff success, team with no cap flexibility, on coach 4, playing the most uninspired, boring, and terrible hockey in the league.

We have become the Oilers we laughed at for the past decade

Right on the money. Edmonton is no good and Calgary is hot on their heels to loserville when it comes to hockey.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Red

He's been trying to build a winning team for 7 years. The team is as bad as it's ever been. That's basically a definition of incompetence.
I don't have a dislike for the guy, I just wanted to point out how he failed to bring that very important piece that's been needed for his entire tenure. I said that after someone pointed out that instead of addressing a need he went out to get Hamonic. Basically reiterating my point that Treliving did not follow his plan.

None of the above trades required a core player to complete the deal, only draft picks and cash. He has dealt many draft picks.

Anyways, I said what I wanted to say. You don't have to agree.

You basing your opinion on success being linear, it's not.

Were Hamilton, Lindholm, Hanifin, Markstrom, Tkachuk, not very important pieces? Where are you drawing the line on this supposed 'very important piece'? Seems like Treliving has sought out and acquired several very important pieces and I am sure he will again.

We know you don't like to stoop to this level, seeing as your smarter than the rest of us 11 year olds, but when your done patting yourself on the back perhaps you can humor us and let us know what you think the Flames should give up for Eichel.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You basing your opinion on success being linear, it's not.

Were Hamilton, Lindholm, Hanifin, Markstrom, Tkachuk, not very important pieces? Where are you drawing the line on this supposed 'very important piece'? Seems like Treliving has sought out and acquired several very important pieces and I am sure he will again.

We know you don't like to stoop to this level, seeing as your smarter than the rest of us 11 year olds, but when your done patting yourself on the back perhaps you can humor us and let us know what you think the Flames should give up for Eichel.

After 7 yrs, these are facts

1) Heavily invested in defense first but what we have today is no top pair, a bunch of mediocre dmen. Can’t break out of their zone and certainly can’t defend
2) A top line that has stagnated and not productive for 3 yrs now with no hope of breaking out of their slump
3) The bottom 6 that is amongst the worst in the league with no depth and no help anytime soon
4) A minor league coach that is clueless
5) A lottery team that is no better than when he found it

Now, explain why he is not fired yet

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If BT was the Oilers GM and made all the same moves for the past 7 years and this was the end result we would all be laughing at them and praying they don't fire him.

7 years of no playoff success, team with no cap flexibility, on coach 4, playing the most uninspired, boring, and terrible hockey in the league.

We have become the Oilers we laughed at for the past decade

A. We were talking about the discrete area of Treliving allegedly being unwilling to “pay the price” of a trade.

B. Give Treliving the draft picks the Oilers had and let’s see if the success is any way comparable.

C. The Oilers wish they’d had the chance to have the “no playoff success” the Flames have had.

I’ve said repeatedly Treliving can go because of his lack of overall success. I push back against this “won’t do a trade” narrative.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A. We were talking about the discrete area of Treliving allegedly being unwilling to “pay the price” of a trade.

B. Give Treliving the draft picks the Oilers had and let’s see if the success is any way comparable.

C. The Oilers wish they’d had the chance to have the “no playoff success” the Flames have had.

I’ve said repeatedly Treliving can go because of his lack of overall success. I push back against this “won’t do a trade” narrative.

I agreed he is not an idle GM

Just a GM with a bad result

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I agreed he is not an idle GM

Just a GM with a bad result

This is true. It’s not all his fault, but results matter.