Morrison, Kulak, Culkin and Kylington are. Wotherspoon is supposed to be working on his offensive game. So is Sieloff.
And even Kylington isn't generating a whole lot of offence - his improvement has been in the defensive zone (which is great, but the point about offense stands).
I know that young teams don't do well in the AHL, but that doesn't excuse his complete lack of success on so many fronts.
Forwards?... D?... goaltending?...
Nope. We aren't seeing much in the way of improvements anywhere.
Morrison has been terrible this year and sat over half their games; frankly I actually forgot about him. Kulak and Culkin are very much 2 way defensemen rather than pure puck moving defensemen like Kylington. As for TSpoon and Seiloff, yeah WORKING on their offensive games, that doesn't mean they magically exist.
I think the problem is you are gauging success on stats.
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Morrison, Kulak, Culkin and Kylington are. Wotherspoon is supposed to be working on his offensive game. So is Sieloff.
And even Kylington isn't generating a whole lot of offence - his improvement has been in the defensive zone (which is great, but the point about offense stands).
I know that young teams don't do well in the AHL, but that doesn't excuse his complete lack of success on so many fronts.
Forwards?... D?... goaltending?...
Nope. We aren't seeing much in the way of improvements anywhere.
It's a real stretch to say Culkin and Kulak are offensive dman. They've never been high scorers in Juniors. I think they're both known as defence first guys. Kylington is an 18 year old guy who's focusing more on defence. Morrison after an exciting few games last year has been all downhill since.
Think people have to remember is Huska is teaching Hartley's system while learning it himself. I think he's done a fine job with what he's been give so far. Besides Poirier he hasn't had any high end early picks on his team.
Last year 5 of his top 6 scorers were rookies. This year quite frankly from top to bottom the whole organization has had a brutal year. This year they added Hamilton and Grant, neither have been point producers in the AHL before.
Look at the Marlies for example; TJ Brennan, Arcobello, Leivo have been AHL producers in the past. Nylander is a high end pick. They have other first rounders in Kappanen, Percy.
I'd like to see him in his own system and with some decent talent.
Morrison has been terrible this year and sat over half their games; frankly I actually forgot about him. Kulak and Culkin are very much 2 way defensemen rather than pure puck moving defensemen like Kylington. As for TSpoon and Seiloff, yeah WORKING on their offensive games, that doesn't mean they magically exist.
I think the problem is you are gauging success on stats.
What? Solid argument there.
The point was that we are not seeing any offense from the D, even from the offensive D. Nor are we seeing any improved or increased offense from the guys that are mandated to be improving their offense.
That could be because:
a) everybody sucks (possible, but unlikely), or
b) because they aren't playing a style that is facilitating much offense from the D
It's a real stretch to say Culkin and Kulak are offensive dman. They've never been high scorers in Juniors. I think they're both known as defence first guys. Kylington is an 18 year old guy who's focusing more on defence. Morrison after an exciting few games last year has been all downhill since.
Think people have to remember is Huska is teaching Hartley's system while learning it himself. I think he's done a fine job with what he's been give so far. Besides Poirier he hasn't had any high end early picks on his team.
Last year 5 of his top 6 scorers were rookies. This year quite frankly from top to bottom the whole organization has had a brutal year. This year they added Hamilton and Grant, neither have been point producers in the AHL before.
Look at the Marlies for example; TJ Brennan, Arcobello, Leivo have been AHL producers in the past. Nylander is a high end pick. They have other first rounders in Kappanen, Percy.
I'd like to see him in his own system and with some decent talent.
The point is that they can both skate and move the puck.
If the system were encouraging and facilitating offense from the D, we should be seeing more from them than we are.
Not everything is absolutes, it's a question of degrees, and change at the margin.
It's a real stretch to say Culkin and Kulak are offensive dman. They've never been high scorers in Juniors.
Kulak had 12 goals in 72 games as an 18 year old and 14 goals in 69 games as a 19 year old. He also added 46 assists as a 19 year old. All on a terrible team that had no offensive firepower to pad stats on... no player on that team was over a point per game.
People are really excited about the offense of Rasmus Andersson who as a 19 year old is on pace for 10 goals and 58 assists if he plays 69 games, on a team with the OHL's leading scorer Kevin Lebanc (5th in goals) and 7th leading scorer Andrew Mangiapane (3rd in goals). Even if we agree that Rasmus Andersson is a better offensive Dman than Kulak (and sure, we do, for reasons), I don't think that one can be a high scorer in Junior while the other was "never" a high scorer in Junior. There is a 13% difference in their individual production as 19 year olds, on teams that had a 29% difference in goals per game.
As for Culkin, I see offensive upside there too and again while his Junior stats are nothing amazing they indicate an ability to move the puck and aren't far off from Kulak or Brodie's junior stats. Just from the eye test though, he has really good puck skills. Maybe he's not a true offensive dman but he was racking up points last season on the power play.
Last edited by GranteedEV; 02-13-2016 at 04:31 PM.
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Kulak had 12 goals in 72 games as an 18 year old and 14 goals in 69 games as a 19 year old. He also added 46 assists as a 19 year old. All on a terrible team that had no offensive firepower to pad stats on... no player on that team was over a point per game.
12 & 14 goals are hardly exceptional offensive numbers in the WHL. It's great he got 46 assists as a 19 year old too, but as you pointed out, terrible team no offensive help which means he was likely put into every offensive opportunity possible to pad those stats. It's not like I said he has no offensive ability, but he is not what I would call an offensive defenseman and from watching him as a pro I am very confident in that assertion.
The point was that we are not seeing any offense from the D, even from the offensive D. Nor are we seeing any improved or increased offense from the guys that are mandated to be improving their offense.
That could be because:
a) everybody sucks (possible, but unlikely), or
b) because they aren't playing a style that is facilitating much offense from the D
Probably some of both
or more likely C) they don't have the defensemen need to effectively play the style of play the Flames do.
I haven't missed a Heat game this year and missed very few last year. They do not have the personnel needed to run the same offensive game they do in Calgary that requires the defensemen to be excellent puck movers.
I think the problem is you are gauging success on stats.
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Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef
12 & 14 goals are hardly exceptional offensive numbers in the WHL. It's great he got 46 assists as a 19 year old too, but as you pointed out, terrible team no offensive help which means he was likely put into every offensive opportunity possible to pad those stats. It's not like I said he has no offensive ability, but he is not what I would call an offensive defenseman and from watching him as a pro I am very confident in that assertion.
Style-wise, Kulak and Culkin are in the "Ryan Suter" category of defencemen. Cerebral defencemen that move the puck really well and skate well. They won't ever win the Norris because they don't generate enough offence like some of the more offensive-minded defencemen, but their complete game and ability to make the right plays consistently is what makes them good prospects.
I wouldn't say they aren't offensive defencemen. They are just not in the same category as guys like Kylington - the defencemen that have the ability to generate loads of offence from the backend. That is not them. However, they are both more than capable of generating offence - neither of them are of the 'stay at home' variety. Kulak in particular seems to have a really nice shot from the point.
I think Enoch is right though - there is good reason to start questioning Huska. I will take Drury's posts last season on it as well in that she didn't really like what she was seeing (if I remember the general gist of her comments which were really good and worth searching for in last season's thread).
I thought Troy Ward was a pretty good coach in the time that he was in the organization, and was disappointed to see him leave. However, I kept an open mind with Huska. I just don't see any improvements in any area that make me feel like he is having a positive impact on the team thus far in his second year in. Not 'terrible', but not 'great' either.
I can definitely see the Flames letting him go this upcoming off-season, or keeping him - which, again for me, is because I see him as not particularly good and not particularly bad. I do hope they search for an upgrade there, however.
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really? all you throw out in there is stats, and now I can't refute what you are saying? C'mon dude, I know you enjoy being a pain in the ass, but this is just stupid.
really? all you throw out in there is stats, and now I can't refute what you are saying? C'mon dude, I know you enjoy being a pain in the ass, but this is just stupid.
It was you that played that card. I was simply holding up a mirror to illustrate what a ridiculous argument it is.
Then you followed it up with the classic 'I watch all the games so I know what I'm talking about' argument.
They don't have the same type of defensemen Calgary has, so why would you expect them to be scoring even within that system? Johnson, Stevenson, Nakladal, Wotehrspoon and Seiloff are not offensive defensemen. In this system with the offense being generated from the blueline, when there is no offensive defensemen it makes it difficult for the forwards to generate offense.
It's almost like Hartley's system itself is the problem. If Huska wasn't forced to adopt Hartleyhockey maybe he could do something with that AHL group.
Also, I'm dying on the hill that Poulin deserved a chance over Ortio.
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
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