I was going to post this video once the second part is also out, but I think it fits well here, because it's from a decisively pro-Ukrainian person but also contains stories and details that don't fit neatly into an all-positive narrative.
Super interesting stuff IMO overall. Contains proper soldierly swearing, military humour (I had some really good laughs) and very real depictions of actual war.
Last edited by Itse; 12-13-2022 at 12:53 AM.
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Well if you want news that are critical of Kremlin, there's Meduza for example (Meduza.io), but what I really meant was things like RT and other openly pro-Russian sources.
It's really eye-opening to follow stuff like that, in the sense that it helps you see just how propaganda actually works, and once you start seeing that, you start noticing just how much of western media is outright propaganda too.
Which again isn't the same as lies, most of what you see is more or less true, even on RT. It's just very selective, and those technically true events are used to build a narrative (implicitly or explicitly) that fits a purpose.
I don't have time to really get more into this very interesting topic, maybe later...
But if you watch pro-Russian news, you'll see plenty of images of competent, well equipped Russian troops and poorly equipped incompetent Ukrainians. It's a good reminder to hold on to some healthy criticism when watching the news and following social media.
Propaganda is mostly not lies, but selective truths.
I see most Russian news outlets like Flat Earthers arguing that the Earth is flat and Western media are arguing that it is a sphere. Just because Russia media argues that the Earth is flat and Western media that it is a sphere, it doesn't mean than the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's a sphere, and we shouldn't entertain any other theories. But wait, I guess the Earth is slightly elongated along the equator so calling it a "perfect" sphere might not be 100% accurate, but it sure as heck isn't a disc.
The Western media does leave out some details, but I assume most people in the West know this and understand that there are aspects they are not being told, but in the big picture, they are way closer to the truth. I don't entertain Russia media versions of the war for the same reason I don't listen to Flat Earthers. It's easier to forgive leaving out some details versus straight lies.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 12-13-2022 at 01:44 AM.
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I see most Russian news outlets like Flat Earthers arguing that the Earth is flat and Western media are arguing that it is a sphere. Just because Russia media argues that the Earth is flat and Western media that it is a sphere, it doesn't mean than the truth is somewhere in the middle. It's a sphere, and we shouldn't entertain any other theories. But wait, I guess the Earth is slightly elongated along the equator so calling it a "perfect" sphere might not be 100% accurate, but it sure as heck isn't a disc.
The Western media does leave out some details, but I assume most people in the West know this and understand that there are aspects they are not being told, but in the big picture, they are way closer to the truth. I don't entertain Russia media versions of the war for the same reason I don't listen to Flat Earthers. It's easier to forgive leaving out some details versus straight lies.
Again, that's not how propaganda works, and no one is saying "the truth is in the middle".
It's just good to be aware that your newsfeed is always just narratives, or stories. And that while narratives are helpful in understanding the world, they're still just stories about the reality, not the reality itself.
While real world differences do exist, and Russians probably do have more.problems with winter warfare training and equipment, the differences are always going to get overblown in media.
Last edited by Itse; 12-13-2022 at 03:16 AM.
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Well if you want news that are critical of Kremlin, there's Meduza for example (Meduza.io), but what I really meant was things like RT and other openly pro-Russian sources.
It's really eye-opening to follow stuff like that, in the sense that it helps you see just how propaganda actually works, and once you start seeing that, you start noticing just how much of western media is outright propaganda too.
Which again isn't the same as lies, most of what you see is more or less true, even on RT. It's just very selective, and those technically true events are used to build a narrative (implicitly or explicitly) that fits a purpose.
I don't have time to really get more into this very interesting topic, maybe later...
But if you watch pro-Russian news, you'll see plenty of images of competent, well equipped Russian troops and poorly equipped incompetent Ukrainians. It's a good reminder to hold on to some healthy criticism when watching the news and following social media.
Propaganda is mostly not lies, but selective truths.
Of all the news you could bring up, RT is what you use?
Well sure, if you actually read stuff like RT in some attempt to see 'both sides' it may sound like Russia is doing better then it really is. According to RT, Russia destroyed more HIMARS then Ukraine got from the US at the time.
Now I don't disagree that western media doesn't sell narratives, heck my post history in other threads should show I am deeply critical of how many operate. But I'm curious to see what narrative you think is occurring that is not true?
*Added spoiler tags to hide the tweets
Last edited by Firebot; 12-13-2022 at 10:22 AM.
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Again, that's not how propaganda works, and no one is saying "the truth is in the middle".
It's just good to be aware that your newsfeed is always just narratives, or stories. And that while narratives are helpful in understanding the world, they're still just stories about the reality, not the reality itself.
While real world differences do exist, and Russians probably do have more.problems with winter warfare training and equipment, the differences are always going to get overblown in media.
I would agree with you but I think the differences are in how deep you want to get. Most people just want to know the general story of the war and the west news sources give you that. Ukraine is taking back land, Russia has a few offenses going, Russia is attacking Ukraine energy infrastructure and causing issues for Ukraine citizens. I haven't seen a ton of stories in major news outlets in the west talk about who has an advantage in the winter - just that it will likely slow down advances from either side. To be fair - I have no idea what Russian news sources are saying outside of the viral clips of them talking nonsense on TV.
If you're following sources that go right down into the details of the war - like who has what weapons, this minor battle here, etc - then yes - you need to exercise caution.
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Of all the news you could bring up, RT is what you use?
Now I don't disagree that western media doesn't sell narratives, heck my post history in other threads should show I am deeply critical of how many operate. But I'm curious to see what narrative you think is occurring that is not true?
The vast majority of Russian sites I visit are on Telegram, and def not RT. If you have that app you can find them pretty easily. Again, you need to wade through the muck, but there is some stuff there that you don't see presented in the western media.
The vast majority of Russian sites I visit are on Telegram, and def not RT. If you have that app you can find them pretty easily. Again, you need to wade through the muck, but there is some stuff there that you don't see presented in the western media.
Did you really need to quote all of those?
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Well sure, if you actually read stuff like RT in some attempt to see 'both sides' it may sound like Russia is doing better then it really is. According to RT, Russia destroyed more HIMARS then Ukraine got from the US at the time.
Now I don't disagree that western media doesn't sell narratives, heck my post history in other threads should show I am deeply critical of how many operate. But I'm curious to see what narrative you think is occurring that is not true?
It's the qouting of the above post that you are questioning?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bumface
Did you really need to quote all of those?
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Last edited by undercoverbrother; 12-13-2022 at 01:54 PM.
I came across a list and map that Russia published indicating enemy states. It is from a few months ago. It is like a badge of honour to be on there. Obviously all the NATO countries are there, plus NATO partners. Interesting to see Switzerland on there, but they have been wavering on their neutrality. Singapore is an interesting inclusion as well. Also note that they included Taiwan, which might be piss off China since recognizing them as an enemy state still recognizes them as a state.
Spoiler!
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I came across a list and map that Russia published indicating enemy states. It is from a few months ago. It is like a badge of honour to be on there. Obviously all the NATO countries are there, plus NATO partners. Interesting to see Switzerland on there, but they have been wavering on their neutrality. Singapore is an interesting inclusion as well. Also note that they included Taiwan, which might be piss off China since recognizing them as an enemy state still recognizes them as a state.
Spoiler!
You give 'em the ol' what for Montenegro!
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If you thought this season would have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.
Ukrainian authorities discovered a room that Russians used to detain and torture children during the occupation of Kherson
Quote:
One 14-year-old boy was arrested and later tortured just for taking a picture of broken Russian equipment, Lubinets said.
"We recorded the torture of children for the first time," said Lubinets. "I thought that the bottom could not be broken after Bucha, Irpin... but we really reached the bottom in Kherson."
Quote:
One 16-year-old Ukrainian interviewed by the Kyiv Independent in August who underwent Russian captivity in occupied Melitopol said he was forced to follow orders, such as cleaning the “torture room” awash with victims’ blood.
The following 90 days in Russian captivity would become nothing but unimaginable horror for the 16-year-old Vladyslav Buryak.
Locked in a tiny dilapidated prison cell in Vasylivka's pre-trial detention center, the boy heard the harrowing screams of Ukrainian prisoners of war being tortured by Russian soldiers. He watched as some of them died after enduring hours of torture and was forced to clean the "torture room" awash with their blood.
"Every minute there was a very severe challenge because every minute could have been my last," the boy told the Kyiv Independent during an interview alongside his father.
