American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[activeStick]

I want to say there's no chance it gets passed and it's just another bill submitted knowing it won't pass, but done so anyway to signal to his voters that he's aligned with the upcoming Yellow Peril.

You can provide lip service and say "I dOnT hAtE cHInesE pEoPlE, I haTE thE CCP" and still implement racist policies by simply linking students and immigrants to the CCP based on speculation, which is already happening today.

Things for Chinese looking people are going to get worse over the coming years.

[Fuzz]

I don't know how accurate this is, as it was a guy who's name I missed on 770 radio, but he was saying Chinese students funded by the CCP are given a 2 week training course before they come to Canada on aquiring information, then have to report occasionally to the consulate on what info they have gotten. If this is the case, maybe we shouldn't be allowing this type of thing? China has shown to be hostile and not play by the rule of law with Canada and other countries, so uh, why should we be helping them?

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't know how accurate this is, as it was a guy who's name I missed on 770 radio, but he was saying Chinese students funded by the CCP are given a 2 week training course before they come to Canada on aquiring information, then have to report occasionally to the consulate on what info they have gotten. If this is the case, maybe we shouldn't be allowing this type of thing? China has shown to be hostile and not play by the rule of law with Canada and other countries, so uh, why should we be helping them?

Yea with the whole CCP funding scandal I'm not sure why we should have any sympathy for them

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't know how accurate this is, as it was a guy who's name I missed on 770 radio, but he was saying Chinese students funded by the CCP are given a 2 week training course before they come to Canada on aquiring information, then have to report occasionally to the consulate on what info they have gotten. If this is the case, maybe we shouldn't be allowing this type of thing? China has shown to be hostile and not play by the rule of law with Canada and other countries, so uh, why should we be helping them?

No, it's still insane and basically on par with the Red Scare in the '50s. What kind of sensitive information is a university student possibly going to have access to that can't just be gotten from basically any other means? And if they are in a position that does have access to something important, then there should be some kind of background check or security clearance for everyone. Or would it have been cool to ban Muslim students after 9/11 because they might be terrorists?

Seriously. Think how insane Texas Republicans are about basically everything; this is just as crazy as their other opinions.

[PsYcNeT]

Frankly I'm more concerned about Chinese Police Stations and TikTok data harvesting than I am with rich university students being asked to report back.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't know how accurate this is, as it was a guy who's name I missed on 770 radio, but he was saying Chinese students funded by the CCP are given a 2 week training course before they come to Canada on aquiring information, then have to report occasionally to the consulate on what info they have gotten. If this is the case, maybe we shouldn't be allowing this type of thing? China has shown to be hostile and not play by the rule of law with Canada and other countries, so uh, why should we be helping them?

Don't trust randos on the internet, but trust randos on the radio whose name and credentials you don't remember? Seems sufficient to cast suspicions over the 100,000+ Chinese students that come to Canada each year, and the 300,000+ Chinese students that head to the US each year.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by opendoor

No, it's still insane and basically on par with the Red Scare in the '50s. What kind of sensitive information is a university student possibly going to have access to that can't just be gotten from basically any other means? And if they are in a position that does have access to something important, then there should be some kind of background check or security clearance for everyone. Or would it have been cool to ban Muslim students after 9/11 because they might be terrorists?

Seriously. Think how insane Texas Republicans are about basically everything; this is just as crazy as their other opinions.

Thank you. I'm actually surprised some on CP support this sort of thing and will actually believe it. Makes me sad.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Don't trust randos on the internet, but trust randos on the radio whose name and credentials you don't remember? Seems sufficient to cast suspicions over the 100,000+ Chinese students that come to Canada each year, and the 300,000+ Chinese students that head to the US each year.

I was driving and tuned in. I missed the part where they said his name. That's why I was mentioning it, to see if there was any validity(assuming others, too, may have heard it). This is a discussion forum where we discuss stuff, and poor concepts get outed pretty quick. Opendoor makes good points.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Frankly I'm more concerned about Chinese Police Stations and TikTok data harvesting than I am with rich university students being asked to report back.

TikTok and other 20 second clip apps remind me of a clock work orange. Those videos melt my brain.

[Fuzz]

Robert Fife from the Globe and Mail(so not a rando). March 14th, select 9am, scan ahead to 17:40.

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-chqr/

It's actually post graduate students studying AI, big data, bio pharma medical...Worth listening to, maybe not just blow it off. The thing is, China plays the long game here, and has no issue spending money and throwing out loads of different things, seeing what works.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Robert Fife from the Globe and Mail(so not a rando). March 14th, select 9am, scan ahead to 17:40.

https://globalnews.ca/pages/audio-vault-chqr/

It's actually post graduate students studying AI, big data, bio pharma medical...Worth listening to, maybe not just blow it off. The thing is, China plays the long game here, and has no issue spending money and throwing out loads of different things, seeing what works.

Oh... seems it didn't take you long to find.

Perhaps you should do that in future before casting suspicions over all Chinese students (which the source himself seems not to be doing). Or perhaps in future you might consider following up the first half of your post with something like "Did anyone else catch that or have that info?" instead of

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If this is the case, maybe we shouldn't be allowing this type of thing? China has shown to be hostile and not play by the rule of law with Canada and other countries, so uh, why should we be helping them?"

Particularly in the context of a discussion following on about a bill to ban Chinese students.

I'm sure that would have saved me from misinterpreting your intent in the discussion.

[opendoor]

Yeah, industrial espionage is definitely a concern. But again, if it's something that sensitive, then they really need to have specific controls in place for those positions. Banning a nationality from attending post-secondary won't be effective and causes significant social harm. Japanese people were interned based on a legitimate threat (spies from a belligerent power operating withing Canada and the US), but that doesn't make it less horrific.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Oh... seems it didn't take you long to find.

Perhaps you should do that in future before casting suspicions over all Chinese students (which the source himself seems not to be doing). Or perhaps in future you might consider following up the first half of your post with something like "Did anyone else catch that or have that info?" instead of

Particularly in the context of a discussion following on about a bill to ban Chinese students.

I'm sure that would have saved me from misinterpreting your intent in the discussion.

Gee, sorry. I was wasting time waiting at the lab for hours(thanks, UCP!). Didn't have access to the info. I'll try to internet better for you next time. Now would you care to address the actual issues he presented? Do you think it is OK for China to be doing this? Or should we perhaps be paying closer attention to what they are doing, and maybe have policies to prevent it?

I'm not suggesting a blanket ban on students, but the west needs to wise up against this kind of thing. China is not an honest or fair partner. We need to stop pretending they are.

[JohnnyB]

Espionage is espionage. Of course any country should have measures to counter espionage. It's not a new thing, and I agree with opendoor that anyone who's working on highly sensitive research etc. there should be controls for everyone who's engaged in it, not just people of one nationality.

What's your view of the fearmongering and Red Scare/Yellow Peril type of rhetoric catching hold in the US?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Espionage is espionage. Of course any country should have measures to counter espionage. It's not a new thing, and I agree with opendoor that anyone who's working on highly sensitive research etc. there should be controls for everyone who's engaged in it, not just people of one nationality.

What's your view of the fearmongering and Red Scare/Yellow Peril type of rhetoric catching hold in the US?

I'm thinking maybe China should stop poking the bear? You know, things like sending spy balloons over?

Is xenophobia a valid reaction? No, of course not. But it's not like China is just an innocent victim of racism here. They are actively threatening our own democracy in Canada while grabbing whatever they can worldwide. They are a threat to global stability, and to ignore that is folly.

[afc wimbledon]

China is doing nothing the UK didn't do in the 19th century and the US didn't do throughout the 20th, by all means argue we should resist them becoming the worlds dominant power but please spare me the outrage, the 'west' has only ever allowed its own white citizens democracy, on the occasion some third world country we had a stake in tried to exercise self determination we shat on them from on high, slaughtered thousands in the process and left them in the grips of some right wing proto fascist thug regime we paid for and armed

[Ozy_Flame]

You don't get to Pax Sinica without reconnaissance and political manipulation.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

China is doing nothing the UK didn't do in the 19th century and the US didn't do throughout the 20th, by all means argue we should resist them becoming the worlds dominant power but please spare me the outrage, the 'west' has only ever allowed its own white citizens democracy, on the occasion some third world country we had a stake in tried to exercise self determination we shat on them from on high, slaughtered thousands in the process and left them in the grips of some right wing proto fascist thug regime we paid for and armed

I don't see any outrage in Fuzz's posts, if that is who you are referring to. To me he has raised valid points that haven't really been responded to directly.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I don't see any outrage in Fuzz's posts, if that is who you are referring to. To me he has raised valid points that haven't really been responded to directly.

China isnt anymore a threat to global stability than the US has been since 1920, China is a threat to our white western stability but most of the world lives in utter poverty providing us with the raw materials for our lifestyle, to them China is probably a better bet, can't be any worse

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I don't see any outrage in Fuzz's posts, if that is who you are referring to. To me he has raised valid points that haven't really been responded to directly.

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

China isnt anymore a threat to global stability than the US has been since 1920, China is a threat to our white western stability but most of the world lives in utter poverty providing us with the raw materials for our lifestyle, to them China is probably a better bet, can't be any worse

...then wouldn't we want to prevent them from spying on us?