Israel declares war on Hamas

[Fuzz]

It also turns out the guy who wrote that study had his sister killed on Oct 7th. I'm sure that had zero influence.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/what-m...amine-in-gaza/

[Scroopy Noopers]

“Your terrorist buddies”. 9000 posts into this and still resort to childish tactics. Embarrassing.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

“Your terrorist buddies”. 9000 posts into this and still resort to childish tactics. Embarrassing.

If you don't have a reasonable argument, just make one up!

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Yet, every civilian casualty in Gaza is treated as deliberate targeting by the IDF. I'm surprised you don't see the hypocrisy.

Where did I say "every civilian casualty"?

I said the disgusting IDF is deliberately targeting and murdering innocent civilians including children and elderly women. Not to mention raping detainees.

You strongly question back that possibly the shot civilian tripped and state that the Palestinian detainee raped himself.

[Language]

Originally Posted by ThePrince

Completely controlling all aspects of life including the flow of goods like food, internet, electricity, and the ability of humans to move freely isn’t “unilateral withdrawal”.

Don’t make it sound like Palestinians have been allowed to live in freedoms since 2006. They have not, and any attempt at making it appear so completely enables Israel to continue to oppress the people.

Yep, let’s just give free reign to the terrorist regime that’s hell bent on destroying you.

The idea behind withdrawing from Gaza in 2006 was indeed to give them more autonomy to travel, hold their own elections, and actually create a functioning society that can live in peace with Israel.

When those at the time voted in Hamas, they sealed the fate for them and their future children. It’s sad, really, looking back on it.


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[Fuzz]

Hamas only won with 44% of the vote, but at the time people also didn't know they were going to seize control of the country, either. And that it would be their last election. So to condemn those living now in Gaza to the result of that vote is pretty wrongheaded. "See, this is what they did, so #### 'em" is a pretty cold take for those struggling to survive.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Hamas only won with 44% of the vote, but at the time people also didn't know they were going to seize control of the country, either. And that it would be their last election. So to condemn those living now in Gaza to the result of that vote is pretty wrongheaded. "See, this is what they did, so #### 'em" is a pretty cold take for those struggling to survive.

Exit polls at the time also showed overwhelmingly that Palestinians wanted Hamas to change their stance on Israel, supported a two state solution, and that Fatah had more overall support.

The fact that Hamas used propaganda and intimidation in the lead up to the election should create some pause for condemning Palestinians to endless death and starvation. And the fact that Israel responded by immediately interfering should be fairly self-explanatory on how “free” Gaza was.

[Fuzz]

And Hamas isn't in control of the West Bank(despite strong efforts), but Israel has no issues committing atrocities there, too. So how much weight can be put into the Hamas argument(that Hamas is the problem and Israel not)? It's also a pretty convenient deflection. Standing against terrorists tends to give you a lot of leeway, which they are clearly using.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Exit polls at the time also showed overwhelmingly that Palestinians wanted Hamas to change their stance on Israel, supported a two state solution, and that Fatah had more overall support.

The fact that Hamas used propaganda and intimidation in the lead up to the election should create some pause for condemning Palestinians to endless death and starvation. And the fact that Israel responded by immediately interfering should be fairly self-explanatory on how “free” Gaza was.

Palestinians in 2006 - "Surely the moderates within Hamas will temper how they govern and we shouldn't believe that Hamas will do everything they say. I'm sure they will govern more towards the center."

[ThePrince]

Originally Posted by Language

Yep, let’s just give free reign to the terrorist regime that’s hell bent on destroying you.

The idea behind withdrawing from Gaza in 2006 was indeed to give them more autonomy to travel, hold their own elections, and actually create a functioning society that can live in peace with Israel.

When those at the time voted in Hamas, they sealed the fate for them and their future children. It’s sad, really, looking back on it.


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What an atrociously disgusting viewpoint.

And the Iranian people conducted the revolution that put the Islamic Republic in power, do you blame the people for what Iran’s government is doing?

How can you expect to create a functioning society when the occupier still controls all aspects of daily life? They tell you what you can eat, when you can have running water and electricity, where you’re allowed to go. Do you think any group of people would just accept that and go about their lives?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Palestinians in 2006 - "Surely the moderates within Hamas will temper how they govern and we shouldn't believe that Hamas will do everything they say. I'm sure they will govern more towards the center."

lol I never made that connection but there’s some dark humour in it. The main problems people had with Fatah at the time?

Incompetence and corruption, of course.

No lessons to be learned here, I’m sure.

[Language]

Looking like Nasrallah may have bitten the dust too.


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[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Language

Yep, let’s just give free reign to the terrorist regime that’s hell bent on destroying you.

The idea behind withdrawing from Gaza in 2006 was indeed to give them more autonomy to travel, hold their own elections, and actually create a functioning society that can live in peace with Israel.

When those at the time voted in Hamas, they sealed the fate for them and their future children. It’s sad, really, looking back on it.

Gaza was basically run by a cult hellbent on killing everyone as long as Jews died as well. They say this, do this and promise to do it again and again.

No matter what, it is the Jews fault to these posters, no matter what. Jews fault they didn’t defend October 7th quick enough and now overdoing it defending against terror. Claim Palestinians hate Hamas but somehow Palestinians shouldn’t support and aid Israel to hunt them down. Want Jews to not use rockets and instead use infantry to go door to door. What is Israel, a tenth of a percent of the Arab world? Israel will respond to this existential threat in the most efficient way possible, as would these posters if they lived in Israel.

The posters here are actively cheering on a terror group, deny it, and condemn any countries fighting back. A few years ago crying about how words are violence, lgb rights, equality for everyone but the jew, and now agreeing with any claim made by Hamas who openly kill anyone who does not support them or is gay, a Jew, or a different religion.

If they are talking they are lying, the classic antisemite.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

No matter what, it is the Jews fault to these posters, no matter what.

The posters here are actively cheering on a terror group, deny it, and condemn any countries fighting back. A few years ago crying about how words are violence, lgb rights, equality for everyone but the jew, and now agreeing with any claim made by Hamas who openly kill anyone who does not support them or is gay, a Jew, or a different religion.

If they are talking they are lying, the classic antisemite.

To the first line, people are actually placing blame on the current Israeli government, not “the Jews,” and have defended and empathized repeatedly with innocent Israelis (“the Jews”) caught in the middle of this mess.

To the bolded, quote the posts and prove it. If it’s obvious, it should be easy. If you can’t, then you’re a liar.

To the rest, it’s hard not to laugh when you’ve nodded along and thanked the posts of a poster who has called the Jewish LGBTQ community “liars” and compared Jewish hostages to Trump supporters. Based on your own bar, that makes you more of an anti-semite than 99% of the posters here.

But keep the narrative alive. I’m sure the “terrorist buddies” narrative is really effective in your head, but all it does is undercut the legitimacy of anything else you have to say.

[PepsiFree]

Honest question for all the “your terrorist buddies” and “classic anti-semite” repeaters here. Let’s use the same logic you use to deny genocide.

If everyone critical of Israel here is anti-semitic and pro-terrorist, why haven’t they expressed anti-semitic views or “supported terrorism” regarding any other topic on this board in the last decade?

Surely if everyone you disagree with is an anti-semite, you’ve got some evidence of that beyond “critical of the Israeli government,” right? Surely if everyone you disagree with is “buddies” with terrorists, you’ve got some evidence of their support for terrorist groups beyond “critical of the Israeli government,” right?

…right?

…any evidence at all?

I mean it’s pretty easy to quote posts where someone says they’re “cheering” on Israel as they kill thousands of children, or wishing posters were victims of a terrorist attack, or supporting Russia’s anti-LGBTQ laws, or promoting white nationalist propaganda, or calling Palestinians animal that need to be killed, and that’s just from some of the more vocal pro-Israeli government posters. So if you guys are that bad, surely you have evidence of the anti-war posters being much worse…

[Snuffleupagus]

This thread sucks, so easy to see it’s antisemitics against Jews, Muslims against Jews, Muslims against anyone who support Jews and their right to defend themselves.

Almost 400,000 dead in Yemen, including many many women and children, where’s the outrage? There is none because seemingly it’s ok if Muslims kill Muslims, very telling. Close this stupid thread.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Gaza was basically run by a cult hellbent on killing everyone as long as Jews died as well. They say this, do this and promise to do it again and again.

No matter what, it is the Jews fault to these posters, no matter what. Jews fault they didn’t defend October 7th quick enough and now overdoing it defending against terror. Claim Palestinians hate Hamas but somehow Palestinians shouldn’t support and aid Israel to hunt them down. Want Jews to not use rockets and instead use infantry to go door to door. What is Israel, a tenth of a percent of the Arab world? Israel will respond to this existential threat in the most efficient way possible, as would these posters if they lived in Israel.

The posters here are actively cheering on a terror group, deny it, and condemn any countries fighting back. A few years ago crying about how words are violence, lgb rights, equality for everyone but the jew, and now agreeing with any claim made by Hamas who openly kill anyone who does not support them or is gay, a Jew, or a different religion.

If they are talking they are lying, the classic antisemite.

I would address both these clearly idiotic positions, to ask Palestinians to aid Israel is to ask them to sign their own death sentence, and bearing in mind Israel has made all Palestinians life a bloody misery over the last 70 or so years (even if this was at times unavoidable) this an inane position to take.

Israel's response has been to what are, while at times annoying (the crappy half arsed rockets from Gaza) to appalling (Oct 7th), but are in no way existential threats.

At no time since 1970 has Israel's existence been threatened, but their response has managed to create Hamas and Hezbollah not provide itself with safety, Israel has done itself more harm than good in the last 40 years or so striking out

If Israel had not invaded Lebanon in 1982 there would be no Hezbollah, Israel's northern border would be with a relatively peaceful prosperous multi cultural Lebanon that Jews would be able to visit and holiday in, instead Israel destabilized the country and created out of nothing it's biggest threat, a Shia group that have nothing in common with Palestinians and should dislike to almost hate them and be a natural alley with Israel, instead Israel has just created enemies

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

This thread sucks, so easy to see it’s antisemitics against Jews, Muslims against Jews, Muslims against anyone who support Jews and their right to defend themselves.

Almost 400,000 dead in Yemen, including many many women and children, where’s the outrage? There is none because seemingly it’s ok if Muslims kill Muslims, very telling. Close this stupid thread.

Does it only make u happy when Israelis kill Muslims? Where was your outrage for Yemen?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

This thread sucks, so easy to see it’s antisemitics against Jews, Muslims against Jews, Muslims against anyone who support Jews and their right to defend themselves.

Almost 400,000 dead in Yemen, including many many women and children, where’s the outrage? There is none because seemingly it’s ok if Muslims kill Muslims, very telling. Close this stupid thread.

When Muslims kill Muslims everyone is in agreement it should be stopped. There aren’t the same rationalizations and we are upset that Canada is arming the Saudis. There is very little disagreement in those threads and so they die quickly if they are ever started. Go make a thread about Yemen and then start defending the side you feel is morally right and see what happens.

The second problem with this approach is how would you like Israel regarded? This is a technologically advanced liberal democracy. Is expecting them to have a modern view on human rights too much to ask. Israel is held to higher standard that the religious governments and psudo democracies precisely because it presents itself as better than them.

[PepsiFree]

GGG nailed it. The situation is horrible, but the reason it isn’t discussed is not because nobody cares, it’s because we all agree it’s horrible. An Iran-Saudi proxy war, great, who is defending either side of that? The death toll and impact on innocent lives makes both Israel and Hamas look like a nothing.

But let’s flip it around.

The UN has called it the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. Where are the people accusing the UN of bias? Where are the people relentlessly disparaging and discrediting the UN?

There has been a ceasefire since 2022 (another reason it isn’t being discussed right now). Where are the people condemning the ceasefire? Where are the people calling anyone who supports a ceasefire “terrorist supporters”?

It’s fine and dandy to say “why isn’t anybody talking about Yemen” but it’s probably less effective coming from someone who has never mentioned Yemen or Houthis outside of this thread and only brings it up the humanitarian crisis in Yemen when he’s calling people anti-semitic, while the people he’s accusing of never talking about it pretty much all have.

But I’m not sure I expect more from someone who just assumes anyone who disagrees with him must be an anti-semite or a Muslim. I asked people to show evidence of anyone who has disparaged “the Jews” and instead someone responded by attempting to use “Muslim” in a derogatory fashion.