[GT] Canada Election 2025

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Was it really that wild? The people in Ottawa hated the truckers. Only a brain damaged moron would consider running in that riding after this.

Sure, but Ottawa Carleton is actually pretty rural. It's not like it's a whole bunch of Fed gov't workers.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I guess it's reasonable to disagree that "hollowing out Canada's tax base to save shareholders' money" counts as "wonders".

Most of those tax moves were done before his time as chair. And the shareholders included the Ontario Teachers Pension as one of the largest.

Anyway, To anyone who actually wants to know what's going on here:

BAM (not Carney himself) has investment funds (think ETFs) that people buy into and sell out of like a stock

The fund then spreads that money across a range of different investments

When BAM gains money from these investments, it would 'normally' (not usually) be taxed on the gains at this point (likely upwards of 30% if it was based in Canada)

When Canadians want to sell their stake in the fund, they also normally have to pay capital gains tax in Canada - this is what's being referred to as potential 'double taxation'

Non-canadians invested in the fund would also be subject to the taxation at the fund level as well as whatever applicable capital gains tax for where they're from

This means that investors would end up getting significantly less returns than they would by investing in assets directly

It also means that gains that would normally be exempt (eg pension funds, TFSAs, RRSPs, etc) would end up being subject to significant taxes

When non tax-exempt entities cash out on gains from the fund, they still have to pay taxes wherever they're based, whether that's in Canada or elsewhere

So, the result of the funds being based in Bermuda is essentially that investing in the fund becomes more or less equal with investing in the assets directly instead of being strictly worse due to the taxation at both levels.

If they didn't do something like this, not only would it be uncompetitive with other investment funds - it probably wouldn't make sense to invest in at all.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

So he should have lost Brookfield money? lol He also saved Cdns 100s of billions when he steered us out of the financial crisis. I think we are square.

Also do I have to point this out once a month? Effing Harpy and Flaherty wanted to deregulate banking rules so that our major banks could get into subprime mortgages back in 2006-2007. Have many Cdns would have lost their homes if Harpy did that? There wouldn't be enough fridge boxes for us to live in.

The guys you are arguing clearly voted Liberal. They are just saying it is the responsible thing to keep leaders accountable.

Not sure why you are getting bent out of shape and implying EE is crying over it

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

That is disgusting that 30% of Albertans want to leave Canada.

How about adjusting your voting so we can some real representation in government.

Originally Posted by Sainters7

So rent/housing prices are going to come down? Excellent! Bye-bye, enjoy USA. I hear they LOVE Canadians right now, you'll definitely be welcomed with open arms...

I'll just throw in some anecdotal talk from the dressing room after beer league hockey last night as this was one of the topics of conversation. There were a surprising number of guys who were favorable to Alberta leaving Canada. However 0% were in favor of joining the US. While I think this won't go anywhere it perhaps illustrates how a significant number of Albertans are frustrated with Alberta's place withing confederation. Not that it's all about becoming American. Two different issues here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Torture

Sure, but Ottawa Carleton is actually pretty rural. It's not like it's a whole bunch of Fed gov't workers.

It probably is. I live outside the city limits and work on 7th Ave downtown. Closer into town in Ottawa is a lot of small apartments and expenseive brownstones. Plus all the main highways to the west and south go through it so the "truckers" would have clogged those as well.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

The guys you are arguing clearly voted Liberal. They are just saying it is the responsible thing to keep leaders accountable.

Not sure why you are getting bent out of shape and implying EE is crying over it

EE is not a liberal! hahaha. He does have some crazy infatuation over Druh Farrell though! lol

[Johnny Makarov]

"This is a big loss to a tired government that's been in power for 10 years," one senior Conservative source who worked for Poilievre in the past told CBC News.

"The guy couldn't do what needed to be done. He utterly refused to acknowledge that the ballot box question had changed to the bitter end," the source said, referring to the U.S. trade war.

Time to get a real job Pierre! .... for a change!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I really dislike this tactic / point of view (not you personally fuzz, you’re cool). It’s a morally hesitant and sort of weak way of approaching decision making to elect someone because you might get some kickbacks. I have a lot more respect for people who vote and stand up for what they believe in.

In this election my hope (like CHL said, slim chance of this happening) is that the liberals stick to their guns on the energy corridor to the east and use the conservatives to get it passed. If the CPC were to vote down a bill to get Alberta’s oil the the east coast (and the rest of Canada) it would be a terrible look.

I get what you are saying, and I didn't mean in in the manner of getting treats, like a gazebo or something Just that I think every province benefits from representation in government, and Alberta does itself a disservice by playing the same game every election, and then we get to hear the talking heads lament that the west has such thin representation.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

He cost us billions in lost tax income. He was doing his job and he did it well, but he wasn’t looking out for the little guy. Try to be a little less partisan and keep our leaders accountable, even when they’re on your “team”.

I'm not sure why that's a knock on him though, that he's good at his previous jobs? When he was at Brookfield, his bosses were Brookfield and helping them minimize tax exposure. It wasn't his responsibility to "look out for the little guy", it was the responsibility of Canadian lawmakers.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I'll just throw in some anecdotal talk from the dressing room after beer league hockey last night as this was one of the topics of conversation. There were a surprising number of guys who were favorable to Alberta leaving Canada. However 0% were in favor of joining the US. While I think this won't go anywhere it perhaps illustrates how a significant number of Albertans are frustrated with Alberta's place withing confederation. Not that it's all about becoming American. Two different issues here.

The problem with Alberta leaving Canada is that the average person doesn't actually know what that means.

They just go "lower taxes, and better for oil"...not realizing how the economy would actually be screwed if Alberta tried to leave Canada.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Most of those tax moves were done before his time as chair. And the shareholders included the Ontario Teachers Pension as one of the largest.

Anyway, To anyone who actually wants to know what's going on here:

BAM (not Carney himself) has investment funds (think ETFs) that people buy into and sell out of like a stock

The fund then spreads that money across a range of different investments

When BAM gains money from these investments, it would 'normally' (not usually) be taxed on the gains at this point (likely upwards of 30% if it was based in Canada)

When Canadians want to sell their stake in the fund, they also normally have to pay capital gains tax in Canada - this is what's being referred to as potential 'double taxation'

Non-canadians invested in the fund would also be subject to the taxation at the fund level as well as whatever applicable capital gains tax for where they're from

This means that investors would end up getting significantly less returns than they would by investing in assets directly

It also means that gains that would normally be exempt (eg pension funds, TFSAs, RRSPs, etc) would end up being subject to significant taxes

When non tax-exempt entities cash out on gains from the fund, they still have to pay taxes wherever they're based, whether that's in Canada or elsewhere

So, the result of the funds being based in Bermuda is essentially that investing in the fund becomes more or less equal with investing in the assets directly instead of being strictly worse due to the taxation at both levels.

If they didn't do something like this, not only would it be uncompetitive with other investment funds - it probably wouldn't make sense to invest in at all.

The move to move the headquarters of company into the US was under him. I'm not saying he isn't the best prime minister of the choices we had, but he absolutely has participated in hollowing out corporate Canada for personal gain.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

The move to move the headquarters of company into the US was under him. I'm not saying he isn't the best prime minister of the choices we had, but he absolutely has participated in hollowing out corporate Canada for personal gain.

Under him as chair of the board. He wasn't CEO or anything. And how was it for personal gain?

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I really dislike this tactic / point of view (not you personally fuzz, you’re cool). It’s a morally hesitant and sort of weak way of approaching decision making to elect someone because you might get some kickbacks. I have a lot more respect for people who vote and stand up for what they believe in.

I get what you're saying but here's the problem: either you elect someone on the hope that they might give you a second thought, or you keep electing the people who never do because they take your vote for granted. The CPC has no need to try for Alberta's votes because they know they've got it on lock. CPC spends all their energy courting eastern Canada for two reasons: 1. the east has more representation (which is a fair gripe), and 2. because they have to earn the votes there.

Like I shared in the other thread, my building downtown had the CPC come by for some political canvassing, and when I let the guy at my door know out of courtesy that I'd already voted, the answer was "Can we assume you voted Conservative?" 'Can we assu-' NO, you cannot assume I voted for you; I didn't, so work for it next time.

Politics in this province are broken to hell because every conservative politician be it federal, provincial, and more recently in some cases even municipal can just assume "it's Alberta, of course they're voting blue". Rempel-Garner doesn't even bloody live here and won handily. It's unfortunate Calgary Centre just missed the mark voting out Greg McLean; yes, I know he's generally about as socially progressive as today's CPC gets, but we still get nothing for it (and I would love to never see another slogan-laden mailer from him again).

It's a relief that Hogan won Confederation given Chahal's defeat in McKnight, it would have been god damned depressing to see the entire city / province go solid blue.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Alberta once again proves that it doesn't understand how to actually influence national politics.

Why does Quebec get so much say in federal politics? Because their votes are available.
Parties/governments will compromise, or outright bribe Quebec because you need them to win an election.

Why would Liberal governments spend any political capital to compromise with Alberta when they know we won't vote for them?
Why would Conservative governments spend any political capital to compromise with Alberta when they know we will ALWAYS vote for them.

The result is the same, Alberta votes Conservatives to Ottawa, and lo and behold, no matter who is forming government we find ourselves under represented.

Do the results of this Election bode well for Alberta? No, of course not.
Do you think PP et al are looking at the results and saying "Oh man, we really need to focus on things that are important to Alberta"?
The big takeaway from this election is that the Conservatives could be viable in Ontario and Quebec, places they need votes, and seats.

If they're smart the real takeaway is that they need to focus there, and lay off pandering to Alberta.

The next election could very well go Conservative. If not that one, at some point it will, and then all of the CPC voters in Alberta will be all excited about how finally we'll have a say, and Alberta will get whatever it wants. The when that doesn't happen...again...when the next election comes, it'll be another sweep for Conservatives in Alberta so they can go vote for things to prop up support in Ontario and Quebec.

I'm glad Carney won, I voted for Corey Hogan. I'm one of the, far to few, Albertans who understands that if I want my voice to be heard, I need to actually speak in a language that people understand.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I'm not sure why that's a knock on him though, that he's good at his previous jobs? When he was at Brookfield, his bosses were Brookfield and helping them minimize tax exposure. It wasn't his responsibility to "look out for the little guy", it was the responsibility of Canadian lawmakers.

We should be looking for leaders who look out for the little guys regardless of their job title. Will he act in the interests of big business as PM? You can’t be absolutely sure he won’t, so keep him honest. Don’t defend him like Johnny Deploranov.

[woob]

From a commentor on Reddit in response to Danielle Smith's response (emphasis mine):

The thing is, there are issues with the "West" and Ottawa. The problem is with the likes of Smith and Moe, their survival depends on those issues being red hot all the time, so they aren't going to do anything but try and make those and a number of made up problems better.

Alberta currently produces more oil than ever. They got that new pipeline. The Feds didn't stop the oilsands. They, to their detriment of left wing voters helped make that happen. But to Smith, it is 5 alarm crisis mode 24/7...

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

We should be looking for leaders who look out for the little guys regardless of their job title. Will he act in the interests of big business as PM? You can’t be absolutely sure he won’t, so keep him honest. Don’t defend him like Johnny Deploranov.

It's insane to me that people are criticizing Carney for being good at his job before he entered politics

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Alberta once again proves that it doesn't understand how to actually influence national politics.

Why does Quebec get so much say in federal politics? Because their votes are available.
Parties/governments will compromise, or outright bribe Quebec because you need them to win an election.

Why would Liberal governments spend any political capital to compromise with Alberta when they know we won't vote for them?
Why would Conservative governments spend any political capital to compromise with Alberta when they know we will ALWAYS vote for them.

The result is the same, Alberta votes Conservatives to Ottawa, and lo and behold, no matter who is forming government we find ourselves under represented.

Do the results of this Election bode well for Alberta? No, of course not.
Do you think PP et al are looking at the results and saying "Oh man, we really need to focus on things that are important to Alberta"?
The big takeaway from this election is that the Conservatives could be viable in Ontario and Quebec, places they need votes, and seats.

If they're smart the real takeaway is that they need to focus there, and lay off pandering to Alberta.

The next election could very well go Conservative. If not that one, at some point it will, and then all of the CPC voters in Alberta will be all excited about how finally we'll have a say, and Alberta will get whatever it wants. The when that doesn't happen...again...when the next election comes, it'll be another sweep for Conservatives in Alberta so they can go vote for things to prop up support in Ontario and Quebec.

I'm glad Carney won, I voted for Corey Hogan. I'm one of the, far to few, Albertans who understands that if I want my voice to be heard, I need to actually speak in a language that people understand.

Although Calgary Centre and Calgary McKnight were pretty close races. If Carney made himself more visible in those ridings over the campaign, it may have been enough to sway some people. I get it, it was relatively a short campaign, it's a big country, and campaigning is expensive. You do need to pick your spots.

I think Carney would be wise to make himself more visible in Alberta and the west in general between now and the next election. Being a minority government, it is quite possible we are heading back to the polls in 18-24 months and I really think he has an opportunity to flip some seats in Alberta's urban ridings.

If he promotes the natural resource sector more than the Liberals have recently, as he should, it could make a big difference as well.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Although Calgary Centre and Calgary McKnight were pretty close races. If Carney made himself more visible in those ridings over the campaign, it may have been enough to sway some people. I get it, it was relatively a short campaign, it's a big country, and campaigning is expensive. You do need to pick your spots.

I think Carney would be wise to make himself more visible in Alberta and the west in general between now and the next election. Being a minority government, it is quite possible we are heading back to the polls in 18-24 months and I really think he has an opportunity to flip some seats in Alberta's urban ridings.

I think that the problem here (I'm in McKnight) is that Chahal DIDN'T make himself more visible. I don't think having Carney here would have moved the needle much. While I know that it's not actually true, it FEELS like after the door-hanger scandal of the last election, Chahal just disappeared and hasn't been seen from since. He needed to get out and address that issue to the populace of his riding. It feels like he just accepted it, hoped that everyone would forget it and vote for him again. Which...isn't wholly unreasonable in politics but IS a gamble.


I do agree that Carney needs to be more in and around Alberta. Especially if he can pin obstruction to his energy plans on Smith/UCP

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I get what you're saying but here's the problem: either you elect someone on the hope that they might give you a second thought, or you keep electing the people who never do because they take your vote for granted. The CPC has no need to try for Alberta's votes because they know they've got it on lock. CPC spends all their energy courting eastern Canada for two reasons: 1. the east has more representation (which is a fair gripe), and 2. because they have to earn the votes there.

Like I shared in the other thread, my building downtown had the CPC come by for some political canvassing, and when I let the guy at my door know out of courtesy that I'd already voted, the answer was "Can we assume you voted Conservative?" 'Can we assu-' NO, you cannot assume I voted for you; I didn't, so work for it next time.

Politics in this province are broken to hell because every conservative politician be it federal, provincial, and more recently in some cases even municipal can just assume "it's Alberta, of course they're voting blue". Rempel-Garner doesn't even bloody live here and won handily. It's unfortunate Calgary Centre just missed the mark voting out Greg McLean; yes, I know he's generally about as socially progressive as today's CPC gets, but we still get nothing for it (and I would love to never see another slogan-laden mailer from him again).

It's a relief that Hogan won Confederation given Chahal's defeat in McKnight, it would have been god damned depressing to see the entire city / province go solid blue.

I have a couple take aways here, the first being that the conservatives did campaign on multiple topics which were proportionally more beneficial for the west (carbon tax scrapping, pipelines to the east) before the liberals did the same. To say they did not try for the Albertan vote seems misguided, a read through the conservative platform would prove that wrong.

https://www.clearbluemarkets.com/kno...rm?hs_amp=true

And secondly, is your issue with the Conservative Party overlooking AB or is it every party overlooking AB due to representation levels? The tone I took from your post points to the latter. We as Albertans aren’t the big electoral fish in Canada, never have been, but thanks to the Cheeto In Command the rest of Canada is now warming up to policy which would benefit us in a major way. Luckily politicians of both LPC and CPC seem to understand that, and I hope we can all benefit from it.