[Trade] Markstrom (31.25% retained) traded to NJ for 2025 1st (top 10 protected) and Bahl

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

Where does Bahl project on our squad next season? Is he a 5/6 guy or does he project as a 4?

He played his first full season last year at 22.

He could be anything in the long run, but I would imagine the flames will use a committee of D men.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Saros-Wolf

What say you.

LOL, does the Flames need to get into the playoffs for the 2024/25 season and lose the lower of the 1st round draft pick even if the Flames just barely misses the playoffs? Or do we want to see the Flames try and go top 5 in the 2025 draft lottery?

There's no reason for the Flames to pick up expensive free agents in the upcoming market unless it is an unbelievable generational talent that you build your team around. Goalie is not a piece to build around. If Makar is available, that's the type of player you'd get the rights for before he hits free agency. Unfortunately, I highly doubt he'll be even vaguely available unless he truly wants out of the Avs.

Actually, there are a few UFA's I wouldn't mind the Flames signed. However, the one I'd target and the only free agent that makes sense at the moment is Sean Monahan. Would love to have him back in a Flames uniform.

[Mass_nerder]

Right now I'm whelmed, but that's assuming the pick will end up being 25-32. If it ends up being 11-15, I will like it, and if it ends up pushed to 2026 as an unprotected 1st, I'll love it.

I'm cautiously optimistic with Bahl, but still kind of wish we got Holtz (even though we've already got a glut of wingers, I can't ignore the draft pedigree).

[konradical]

Originally Posted by Bonded

#4 on the Flames and a #6 on a good team

The Oilers are a good team and he would easily be their 4th

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

When was the last time you heard of any 34-year-old player, let alone a goalie, moved for this type of return? It happens extremely rarely.

That’s completely true, except many (not you) when presented with this statement earlier said this is different because NJ is desperate and Conroy can squeeze many teams and get thev10OA plus for him. Or NJ could pound sand.

At the end of the day, Markstrom was never going to get more than a 2025 1St, and Bahl was the payment for the retention.

Conroy got what he could.

[SemicolonD]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Markstrom is only the third 30+ goalie to be traded for a 1st in the last 15 years, and the sixth in the entire salary cap era.

- Markstrom from CGY to NJ for 1st, Bahl
- Kuemper from AZ to COL for 1st, 3rd, Timmins
- Miller and Ott from BUF to STL for 1st, 3rd, Halak, Stewart, Carrier
- Toskala and Bell from SJ to TOR for 1st, 2nd, 4th
- Vokoun from NSH to FLA for 1st, 2nd, 2nd
- Roloson from MIN to EDM for 1st, 3rd

Lol apparently its a C- though

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Lol apparently its a C- though

It's Vogue to beat on the Flames these days.

[Jason14h]

I think some analysts are giving a low grade because of the retention and assuming teams should / will continue to pay the same rate for retention as two dumb GMs did during a stagnant cap - both of which exploded in their face magnificently

I think retention now is almost part of the player moving - instead of a sweetener it is more “If you don’t retain it’s a non starter “

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That’s completely true, except many (not you) when presented with this statement earlier said this is different because NJ is desperate and Conroy can squeeze many teams and get thev10OA plus for him. Or NJ could pound sand.

At the end of the day, Markstrom was never going to get more than a 2025 1St, and Bahl was the payment for the retention.

Conroy got what he could.

Where would you put "many" as a percentage?

3%? 1%?

I posted many times that moving the goaltender at all was a win. 10th overall would be huge. 2025 1st would be a great second prize.

This landed where I thought it was going, and I think that lines up with the vast majority of people on this site.

We are always going to have 5% arguing with an optimistic lens, another 5% trying to spin things as negativity as possible.

But lets not lump in too much of that middle 90 with either group

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

If Conroy traded him last TDL, maybe he could have had NJ’s 2024 pick

But that may not be the 10th overall, since Markstrom should have helped them but who knows

Possibly, but it would have been top 10 protected. So we would have ended up with the 25 pick anyway.

People seem to forget that the 10OA pick was not a thing during the deadline discussions. The expectation was that NJD likely makes the playoffs if they acquire Markstrom, and the pick is likely 17-23. And it would ABSOLUTELY have been top 10 protected.

I was one of the people that felt that the return would be less in the summer than it would have been at the deadline. That seems to have been the case, but the difference isn't that significant. They got a 1st (probably the same first), and a player. Always hard to determine which player might be involved, but I 100% prefer Bahl to Holtz.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Markstrom is only the third 30+ goalie to be traded for a 1st in the last 15 years, and the sixth in the entire salary cap era.

- Markstrom from CGY to NJ for 1st, Bahl - Retained 31.3%
- Kuemper from AZ to COL for 1st, 3rd, Timmins - Retained 22.22%
- Miller and Ott from BUF to STL for 1st, 3rd, Halak, Stewart, Carrier - Retained 20%
- Toskala and Bell from SJ to TOR for 1st, 2nd, 4th - No retention
- Vokoun from NSH to FLA for 1st, 2nd, 2nd - No retention
- Roloson from MIN to EDM for 1st, 3rd - No retention

Retention figures added

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Possibly, but it would have been top 10 protected. So we would have ended up with the 25 pick anyway.

People seem to forget that the 10OA pick was not a thing during the deadline discussions. The expectation was that NJD likely makes the playoffs if they acquire Markstrom, and the pick is likely 17-23. And it would ABSOLUTELY have been top 10 protected.

I was one of the people that felt that the return would be less in the summer than it would have been at the deadline. That seems to have been the case, but the difference isn't that significant. They got a 1st (probably the same first), and a player. Always hard to determine which player might be involved, but I 100% prefer Bahl to Holtz.

I figured if they got the deal done at the deadline, NJ would have 5-10 more points to end the season with Markstrom in net. Which would have them just missing and finishing around Pittsburgh and Detroit or Philly.

So in theory, the Flames would have had ended up with a top 20 ish pick. Which would be fine.

[dammage79]

I'm good with Bahl over Holtz. That being said, the Flames really need to find some offense to put into their FW group still.

I know Conroy has a plan and all that, but I'd would like to have seen some more FW additions. He's gone heavy on defense.

Hopefully he's sated his need for D and grabs some up front skill in the draft.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I figured if they got the deal done at the deadline, NJ would have 5-10 more points to end the season with Markstrom in net. Which would have them just missing and finishing around Pittsburgh and Detroit or Philly.

So in theory, the Flames would have had ended up with a top 20 ish pick. Which would be fine.

When the talks started, NJD was just outside the playoff picture. On Feb 14th, they were 2 points out. Add Markstrom at that time, and they almost certainly get in.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I'm good with Bahl over Holtz. That being said, the Flames really need to find some offense to put into their FW group still.

I know Conroy has a plan and all that, but I'd would like to have seen some more FW additions. He's gone heavy on defense.

Hopefully he's sated his need for D and grabs some up front skill in the draft.

If the plan is to be a bottom team, I love the approach. The offense will come when we draft at the top as well with some of the additional picks/current prospects.

This approach IMO helps players develop while losing being a no talent, but hard worker, good defensive team that plays the game the right way but loses due to not putting pucks in the net consistently. This team will suck unless we make some big additions, but we won't be SJ bad and most night we will be a hard noise, tough to play against team. This team might give Wolf a chance to play well too. We will have some night against the elite where we get steam rolled, but most nights against average and bad teams we could lose yet out play our opponents.

[Barnet Flame]

I meant to vote ‘whelmed’

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

That’s completely true, except many (not you) when presented with this statement earlier said this is different because NJ is desperate and Conroy can squeeze many teams and get thev10OA plus for him. Or NJ could pound sand.

At the end of the day, Markstrom was never going to get more than a 2025 1St, and Bahl was the payment for the retention.

Conroy got what he could.

It wasn’t that long ago that Claude Giroux was traded as a 34 year old rental for former top 10 pick Owen Tippett and a 1st rounder

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, I love the strategy of acquiring a bunch of D prospects in the 20-23 age group. Hopefully 2 or 3 of them develop, while you draft your new core over the next 3 years.

Defensemen are harder to predict, so get a bunch of them and see how it goes. Meanwhile, spend your first round picks on offensive talent.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

He played his first full season last year at 22.

He could be anything in the long run, but I would imagine the flames will use a committee of D men.

He was 23 last year he turns 24 in one week

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Lol apparently its a C- though

and they got him for FREE when Vancouver let him walk for NOTHING