I'm good with the return, and it really was a fair deal for both teams.
But I'm still disappointed and would have liked to have seen Conroy play a little more hardball right up to the draft floor (just like he should have done with Tanev).
I actually feel this is starting to show as a bit of a weakness in Conroy as a GM. He doesn't seem like he's willing to wait until the last minute in case he misses. Some of this might be the pressure he's under, but it makes me a little concerned that he'll overpay when he really wants a guy. If I were another GM, I would be looking to exploit this.
He already tried that at the deadline and even pulled the classic I need to talk to my manager bit. If he waits till the draft floor and Jersey gets another goalie then he is kind of screwed. I also don't think the 10th wa ever in play outside of a larger trade.
Sounds like he gets a deal he thinks is fair and gives other parties a shot at it to try and up the return. The Canucks were mad he kept pushing on conditions. If the Canucks and Stars didn't collapse then the returns would have be even better.
I'm good with the return, and it really was a fair deal for both teams.
But I'm still disappointed and would have liked to have seen Conroy play a little more hardball right up to the draft floor (just like he should have done with Tanev).
I know there's risk in that, but clearly the Devils saw Markstrom as the goalie they wanted -- and the only way to win a trade is to wait until the other team is desperate enough. Until the pick is made, it was in play for a goalie and there are a lot of emotions on that draft floor.
I actually feel this is starting to show as a bit of a weakness in Conroy as a GM. He doesn't seem like he's willing to wait until the last minute in case he misses. Some of this might be the pressure he's under, but it makes me a little concerned that he'll overpay when he really wants a guy. If I were another GM, I would be looking to exploit this.
One interpretation is that Conroy did exactly that when the trade for Markstrom didn't go down at the TDL.
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People put way too much stock into what "writers" opinions. Very few of them were NHL executives and understand values and how trades work. These "writers" usually have no clue what they are talking about and they all have their personal biases (if they grew up outside of Calgary, they likely cheer for one of the Flames rivals; and if they are Flames fans, then it is in their nature to #### on the Flames moves). There is zero objectivity from these "writers". Their opinion is about as good as any of the posters on here. So, really, who cares what the Athletic or other BS website says?
The historical comparables are out there. You can make your own objective analysis on the value with factual data and based on this, the deal looks completely market. Any grade less than a "B" is just a Flame hater trying to get their kicks in on a rival of their favourite team.
The only article I read grade wise was the Athletic and there were 3 people (Sean Gentile, Shayna Goldman, Eric Duhatchek) that graded the deal and Duha was the only one to look at it through the Flames lense. I think pick protection, and salary retention are what make this deal look pretty weak from the Flames standpoint.
It is kind of wild that the Flames finally landed their franchise goalie in Markstrom and they only made the playoffs in 1 of his 4 years here and it could be argued his performance is why they lost to Edmonton in 5 and also why they missed the playoffs in 2023.
The only article I read grade wise was the Athletic and there were 3 people (Sean Gentile, Shayna Goldman, Eric Duhatchek) that graded the deal and Duha was the only one to look at it through the Flames lense. I think pick protection, and salary retention are what make this deal look pretty weak from the Flames standpoint.
It is kind of wild that the Flames finally landed their franchise goalie in Markstrom and they only made the playoffs in 1 of his 4 years here and it could be argued his performance is why they lost to Edmonton in 5 and also why they missed the playoffs in 2023.
1 season was wasted in that stupid Canadian bubble. 2 seasons marred in off ice drama with players wanting out, and a year with Sutter going crazy.
Not the best timeline to be a Flame. Was never a huge Markstrom fan to begin with though.
It looks like Saros is about the enter the trade market as his contract demands are exceeding what Nashville is willing to offer.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames caught wind of this potentially coming out and wanted to act on Markstrom before they were left without a dance partner.
It's further cementing my belief that this was a good trade for the Flames and that they acted at the appropriate time.
It looks like Saros is about the enter the trade market as his contract demands are exceeding what Nashville is willing to offer.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Flames caught wind of this potentially coming out and wanted to act on Markstrom before they were left without a dance partner.
It's further cementing my belief that this was a good trade for the Flames and that they acted at the appropriate time.
It's kind of what Conroy alluded to. That teams were going to make some decisions on goalies and they needed to decide sooner on Marky than expected.
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Kind of funny both players were moved on the same day, one in a trade and one off waivers...
The fight is whatever. Best part of that vid is how Bahl skated, corralling lindgren into the boards without a choice, and just smoked him with a hip check.
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He already tried that at the deadline and even pulled the classic I need to talk to my manager bit. If he waits till the draft floor and Jersey gets another goalie then he is kind of screwed. I also don't think the 10th wa ever in play outside of a larger trade.
Sounds like he gets a deal he thinks is fair and gives other parties a shot at it to try and up the return. The Canucks were mad he kept pushing on conditions. If the Canucks and Stars didn't collapse then the returns would have be even better.
That's not really how the TDL went down. He reportedly had a deal done well before the trade deadline and then ownership squashed it, creating bad blood between the organizations that lasted through the trade deadline.
You might be right that the 10th would have never been traded for Markstrom but I just don't like these deals getting done so far before the deadline day as it sets other teams up for low balling (like the Tanev deal).
I do agree with comments that this is a risk and maybe the other goalies that were becoming available added to the pressure, but the Devils VERY much wanted Markstrom. Would they have actually gone after someone else?
If Conroy had waited would you have accepted a poor return?
It's a tricky game of musical chairs. A finite number of teams need a goalie and there are more goalies available than usually. We've seen two move already, and at least a couple more will.
So you have to evaluate how much better you think the deal will get relatively how much worse it can get if you wait too long.
I'm not convinced waiting would have been the right move.
And if Ullmark and Saros are on the market, they are going to draw more interest than Markstrom even with retention. Markstrom is a good goalie, but not one that you win with when the chips are down. I will be surprised if he is a top 5 goalie over the next couple of seasons.
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And if Ullmark and Saros are on the market, they are going to draw more interest than Markstrom even with retention. Markstrom is a good goalie, but not one that you win with when the chips are down. I will be surprised if he is a top 5 goalie over the next couple of seasons.
I agree with you, but I don't see this being the way the Devils viewed Markstrom compared to those other two (or even if the other two were really available to them).
They wanted him badly and they kept circling back.
That's not really how the TDL went down. He reportedly had a deal done well before the trade deadline and then ownership squashed it, creating bad blood between the organizations that lasted through the trade deadline.
You might be right that the 10th would have never been traded for Markstrom but I just don't like these deals getting done so far before the deadline day as it sets other teams up for low balling (like the Tanev deal).
I do agree with comments that this is a risk and maybe the other goalies that were becoming available added to the pressure, but the Devils VERY much wanted Markstrom. Would they have actually gone after someone else?
Tanev didn't get lowballed. The Flames just happened to like a prospect a lot of people don't. I pretty much guarantee no one would be complaining about the Tanev return if it was the cap dump + a 1st that was also on the table. He also traded Lindholm early and got a great return. Hanifin was a grind and a lot of people were disappointed.
My stance on ownership has softened now that Markstrom was traded with retention. I am less convinced the ownership nixing the deal thing is real.
It goes both ways, the Devils really wanted Markstrom and he wanted to go there. Would any other team he was willing to waive for be willing to part with an equivalent package if the Devils bowed out. If the answer is no then you are hooped.
Markstrom is only the third 30+ goalie to be traded for a 1st in the last 15 years, and the sixth in the entire salary cap era.
- Markstrom from CGY to NJ for 1st, Bahl
- Kuemper from AZ to COL for 1st, 3rd, Timmins
- Miller and Ott from BUF to STL for 1st, 3rd, Halak, Stewart, Carrier
- Toskala and Bell from SJ to TOR for 1st, 2nd, 4th
- Vokoun from NSH to FLA for 1st, 2nd, 2nd
- Roloson from MIN to EDM for 1st, 3rd
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All we have to do is draft a good player with this New Jersey pick and it won't matter whether he was picked #10 or #32.
One thing that is promising is that even though the New Jersey Devils' roster looks good on paper, they missed the playoffs last year and they have missed the playoffs most years, so there's a chance the pick could be high up anyway. Like you would never predict that Buffalo would still be bad after they drafted Eichel but they were and still are
Markstrom was a really good goalie for us. There is no denying that. He's one of the better goalies in the league.
But for me, in the one season where this team had a shot at a cup run, he was not very good in a crucial series against a chief rival. I can't forget that.
A 1st and a decent young player sounds good to me
That playoff series was a deal breaker. One of the worst goaltending performances ever! That was a totally winnable series and we would have won a few games against the Avs.
Maybe that would have changed both the Dweeb and Chucky's minds about staying in Calgary.
Last one to go now is Ramsus. The stink from that series will never leave.
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