[News] UPD: Tkachuk arbitration hearing set for Aug 11

[PaperBagger'14]

It would be fantastic if we could actually get some good news at some point this summer. I'd be ok with the flames taking on Tarasenko++ this year if and only if they flip him at the TDL for assets and kick start the rebuild. Kyrou would be a great add as well, but everything should be based around those sweet first round pick(s)

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So they should have moved Johnny after the 19-20 season when he had 58 points and was a -10? That would have been a sell-low move to say the least...

No.

Say this with me.

They should have had a drop-dead date that preceded the draft.

They especially should have had a drop dead offer once New Jersey offered the 2nd overall pick.

That has been reported enough places that even if it wasn’t formally offered, it was certainly discussed.

I don’t care how weak the draft is - if someone is open to including a top-2 pick for a player who won’t sign here for $80m, you take the top-2 pick.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

No.

Say this with me.

They should have had a drop-dead date that preceded the draft.

Say this with me.

It isn't a drop-dead date if the other party doesn't have to drop dead.

They especially should have had a drop dead offer once New Jersey offered the 2nd overall pick.

Say this with me.

We know that Jersey shopped the 2nd overall pick. We do not know that they ever offered it straight up for Tkachuk.

That has been reported enough places that even if it wasn’t formally offered, it was certainly discussed.

It's been reported that the pick was in play. The specific deal? That was just a bunch of fans getting their hopes up because they wanted a rebuild.

I don’t care how weak the draft is

2012 says hi.

[FlamesAreOne]

Losing/being forced to move two 100+ point forwards, from the same line, in one off-season? That is so unacceptable.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

Losing/being forced to move two 100+ point forwards, from the same line, in one off-season? That is so unacceptable.

Nothing could have been done about, thems just the breaks.

[kyuss275]

If they can’t strike deal with blues , kinda hope they try the devils. Wouldn’t mind Brat and Mercer.

[CaptainCrunch]

And this is why I don't get all that attached to players anymore.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

It would be fantastic if we could actually get some good news at some point this summer. I'd be ok with the flames taking on Tarasenko++ this year if and only if they flip him at the TDL for assets and kick start the rebuild. Kyrou would be a great add as well, but everything should be based around those sweet first round pick(s)

Late firsts are the most over-rated asset by fans. By a country mile.

Also, a return centered around Tarasenko would be horrific. A 30 year old with lots of mileage and injuries, and a UFA in one year. Super. Tarasenko does not have much value.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

More excessive dramatics.

The system is self-correcting. When crap happens, or you make bad decisions, you get higher draft picks. And, in this case, cap space.

Is it a setback this year? Of course. Ten years? LOL.

Not dramatic. Look at the system. Look at the draft picks. Look at the potential bodies in the system and the development cycle. Look at the gaps that exist in the system. It's exactly what Sutter did to screw the team over before he got sacked as GM and why our opportunity window was so short. It's exactly why teams wander in the desert for years on end. We're going to have start over and try to find critical mass in the system, and that only comes with drafting. But ignore what's happening. We have cap space!

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not dramatic. Look at the system. Look at the draft picks. Look at the potential bodies in the system and the development cycle. Look at the gaps that exist in the system. It's exactly what Sutter did to screw the team over before he got sacked as GM and why our opportunity window was so short. It's exactly why teams wander in the desert for years on end. We're going to have start over and try to find critical mass in the system, and that only comes with drafting. But ignore what's happening. We have cap space!

The Flames have also had 5 first round picks in the last 8 years, 7 second round picks in 8 years and 6 3rd round picks in the last 8 years, so they can build off that bounty of young talent. They also have 5 picks next year and 5 picks the year after.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Late firsts are the most over-rated asset by fans. By a country mile.

Also, a return centered around Tarasenko would be horrific. A 30 year old with lots of mileage and injuries, and a UFA in one year. Super. Tarasenko does not have much value.

Just keep Tkachuk if the major piece back is Tarasenko

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not dramatic. Look at the system. Look at the draft picks. Look at the potential bodies in the system and the development cycle. Look at the gaps that exist in the system. It's exactly what Sutter did to screw the team over before he got sacked as GM and why our opportunity window was so short. It's exactly why teams wander in the desert for years on end. We're going to have start over and try to find critical mass in the system, and that only comes with drafting. But ignore what's happening. We have cap space!

Yes, ridiculously dramatic.

If they had traded Gaudreau a year ago, or at the deadline, they would likely have another Zary-type prospect, from a late 1st, and another prospect or player. Maybe a prospect AND a player.

Ooh... that totally changes the outlook of the organization for at least the next 10 years!!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

No.

Say this with me.

They should have had a drop-dead date that preceded the draft.

They especially should have had a drop dead offer once New Jersey offered the 2nd overall pick.

That has been reported enough places that even if it wasn’t formally offered, it was certainly discussed.

I don’t care how weak the draft is - if someone is open to including a top-2 pick for a player who won’t sign here for $80m, you take the top-2 pick.

They didn’t offer the 2nd (reportedly) for Gaudreau.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Say this with me.

It isn't a drop-dead date if the other party doesn't have to drop dead.



Say this with me.

We know that Jersey shopped the 2nd overall pick. We do not know that they ever offered it straight up for Tkachuk.



It's been reported that the pick was in play. The specific deal? That was just a bunch of fans getting their hopes up because they wanted a rebuild.



2012 says hi.

Oh my god.

Brad: Matthew, Johnny, we need an answer from you before July 6. Our best offer is X (call it matching 8x$10.5M).

Tkachuk and Gaudreau: okay… probably not gonna sign that.

Brad: Okay, well, good luck getting $84M in UFA. thanks for playing for the Calgary Flames.

Hang up, call the Devils, and hammer something out. Because their plan was “get Tkachuk and Gaudreau, and if that costs 2OA in a weak draft, so be it.”

That’s not a bad plan. It’s actually a really good plan. I would have been open to doing something with them on it.

Leaving yourself no margin for error, pretending you operate in the same reality as Tampa or Colorado, with ready-made contenders in destination cities is classic Calgary Flames bull####.


It’s not like either of these guys haven’t been tipping their hand about leaving at the earliest opportunity for the last two years. It’s been a topic of conversation for even longer than that.

But the guys running the show were completely unaware.

And to top it all off, they circled back and offered 7x$10.5M when Gaudreau wasn’t getting the AAV he expected.

That’s pathetic.

It’s like asking a girl if you can still work things out after she’s told you she never loved you and is actively seeing other people.

[Enoch Root]

Also, if they traded Gaudreau a year ago, Tkachuk would not have put up 100 pts this year, and his current value would be less.

Thus is the nature of pro sports. Be bad, get rewarded (higher draft picks, etc). Be good, get punished (higher contract prices, lesser picks, etc)

It is self-correcting

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by rhino

I worry about any guy possibly connected to the Hockey Canada SA and hasn’t come out publicly to say he was not part of it and will be cooperating with the investigation ……. Lol literally just released the statement after I posted this. Well then by all means make him part of a deal.

Dubé was the captain. Should the Flames jettison him too?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Not dramatic. Look at the system. Look at the draft picks. Look at the potential bodies in the system and the development cycle. Look at the gaps that exist in the system. It's exactly what Sutter did to screw the team over before he got sacked as GM and why our opportunity window was so short. It's exactly why teams wander in the desert for years on end. We're going to have start over and try to find critical mass in the system, and that only comes with drafting. But ignore what's happening. We have cap space!

Does dealing Johnny 1 or 2 years ago really fix this? I agree that there has been a fundamentally misguided approach to managing this team over the past... oh... 20 or even 30 years... too much trying to win now and tossing futures away like candy... but trading away Johnny 2 summers ago wouldn't have magically fixed these problems. He might have got this team a nice haul following the 2019 playoff exit, but his trade value dropped significantly during the 19-20 season.

Then Darryl was hired as coach during the 2021 season, and from that moment there was no possibility of trading Johnny.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames were a true contender this season and it didn't stop Gaudreau or Tkachuk from wanting out.

Losing 4 straight to the Oilers isn't a contender.
Being one shot away from losing in the 1st round to Dallas, the weakest team in the playoffs isn't a contender.

[Icon]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Dubé was the captain. Should the Flames jettison him too?

In all reality, maybe, depending on how the rest of the investigation goes

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

They didn’t offer the 2nd (reportedly) for Gaudreau.

They offered it for Tkachuk.

Whose fate reportedly hinged on Gaudreau coming back.

So if Gaudreau’s not coming back, neither is Tkachuk.

So if Tkachuk’s not coming back, what are you getting for him that’s better value than 2nd overall, plus more.

If Jersey really had eyes on getting both of them, and there’s no reason to assume they didn’t, try and make that work.

2nd overall
Hischier

For

Tkachuk
Gaudreau

Matching 8 year extensions.

Nah. C’est impossible.