2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Nobody is going to go full rental on Stone, so let's assume every scenario is a trade & sign because that's what its going to be.

Thomas Tatar went for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd ... and he's not even CLOSE to what Stone is.
Dougie went for 1st and 2 2nd's and arguably not as "generational" as Stone.

1st, Dube, Frolik, Czarnik is doing the flames a HUGE favor, its not helping Ottawa.

I can play that too:

Please tell me when a generational talent (top 15 in the NHL) has hit UFA status on his current team and has been out for tender that has gone for less than that.

Stone is going to want to play ball to sign with a team and not test the market which is likely why your trade and sign proposal is unlikely. Just some brutal examples. Dougie was a RFA 22 year old and Tartar had multiple years left on his contract and was a horrible trade to begin with. You are taking the massive reach that Dorian (who has been destroyed on his major trades) is going to somehow going to figure it out with Stone when his back is against the wall?

Even funnier is you call Stone generational talk about reach. Career high 64ots who is a winger on the worst team in the league is top 15 in the entire game?

Again please tell me in the post lockout history when a rental returned close to what you said at the deadline. Stone is going to get more than Karlsson got? Come on man be realistic. Has a high profile UFA ever signed an extension with the team renting him before the end of the season? Kovalchuk re-signed in NJ but that was in the summer not right after the trade.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I suspect that in order to extract enough value out of the asset, Ottawa will grant team's access to re-sign him. I don't think they will looking at an ROI on the basis of a pure rental.
And I still think they will eventually re-sign him themselves.

Why doesn’t that happen every year at the deadline with top rentals? The player has to want to sign with a team for a huge deal without having much time to think about it when he could just wait 5 months and take the time to pick the team of their choice.

[Incogneto]

With all the Offer Sheet talk, here is the CapFriendly page about offer sheets that gives all the information you would need to chat about it:
https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Even funnier is you call Stone generational talk about reach. Career high 64ots who is a winger on the worst team in the league is top 15 in the entire game?

Again please tell me in the post lockout history when a rental returned close to what you said at the deadline. Stone is going to get more than Karlsson got? Come on man be realistic. Has a high profile UFA ever signed an extension with the team renting him before the end of the season? Kovalchuk re-signed in NJ but that was in the summer not right after the trade.

I'm not saying he's generational lol, I'm quoting what others are saying as to why we want him on the flames.

I'm firm in the camp of not wanting to mortgage the future for a rental Stone, nor would I give up 1st, Dube, Valamaki + for a resigned Stone at north of 8.5M for 7-8 years.

[red sky]

Originally Posted by Gundo

Me and my size 15 feet will gladly provide your meal if this ever happens. Please let me know if you prefer white or dark socks.

Dark or black.

Big Black Socks

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I'm not saying he's generational lol, I'm quoting what others are saying as to why we want him on the flames.

I'm firm in the camp of not wanting to mortgage the future for a rental Stone, nor would I give up 1st, Dube, Valamaki + for a resigned Stone at north of 8.5M for 7-8 years.

Gotcha. I am with you I wouldn’t do the deal either. I think Stone is a great player and would be my top target as far as potential rentals go but I couldn’t give up a package that includes Valimaki and Dube in addition to the 1st. I think the trade package will be less than that though.

Typically we see a 1st, top 2-3 prospect, and fringe/average roster player in return for the big forwards.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sorry, but this is poor evaluation. Bennett is a line driver and a strong two way player. Virtanen is a guy who can shoot the puck really well. Bennett is far more valuable in every way, and point totals never tell enough of the story.

No. Sam Bennett is not a line driver. Sam Bennett is a third cog on any line he's been on. A line driver is someone who dictates the pace, dictates the control of the puck, and dictates the scoring on the line. Sam Bennett does none of the above. He's a guy who brings some grit and hustle to line. Nothing more.

If Calgary was offered a 1st and a 3rd for Bennett, they would refuse that trade, the player is worth more to them on the ice than a 1st likely will be. He's our 6th leading forward scorer, by the way. Frolik may have higher PPG but we both know that's inflated by empty net goals. And Bennett hasn't had the luxury of James Neal having finish.

Completely disagree. If that offer came in there would be multiple front office staff warming up their cars. Bennett is a role player and any time you can get a first round pick for a role player you take it and run.

As for not remembering many nice passes by Bennett leading to goals? I think that's poor recollection on your part. Off the top of my head:

Rookie Season
- a perfect stretch pass to Mason Raymond vs STL
- a great feed from behind the net to TJ Brodie against the grain vs EDM
- a beautiful two man game with Frolik on the right side from behind the goal line, off his backhand to boot, against the Caps
- spins off on Sidney Crosby with some nice edges, hits a streaking Colborne right in the slot on the tape
- a really clean, hard cross ice feed to Brodie, whi then feeds it back across to Backlund for the tap in, dunno who against
- another backhand assist to Ferland, maybe Colborne ?against the Coyotes

2nd season
Makes a ridiculous pass to Chiasson against the grain from behind the net against Boston
The Gaudreau goal you mentioned

3rd season
A really nice pass on the PP from the slot over to Ferland for a one timer
Really nice feed across the ice to Jagr, who spots Janko
Another on the power play where he spots Janko from behind the net

This season:
The dropoff to Neal for a wide open net
A sexy drop pass back to Gaudreau, who then passed it to Monahan and Hamonic got the tip in.

That's a few just going by memory. To go with probably some other nice ones I forget and a lot of really rock solid simple plays that are nice reads - see his assist on Hanifin's goal in the most recent game.

I bet The Scorpion can do the same thing with David Jones. Doesn't mean Jones is a good player, or a good passer, or anything else, it just means you're fixated on him and think he is way better than he really is.

I also believe his passing in the defensive zone and neutral zone are way better than the offensive zone. In the offensive zone he seems to be afraid of getting his pass picked off, so he makes the safe low reward play, but in the other two zones he really sees the ice. Watch how consistently the team breakout goes through him, whether it's a play on the walls as a winger or his play down low as a center. I always get a kick out of people who say he's a bad center when he has aspects of his game that rival Backlund. Jankowski is the anchor on that line holding them back.

The only thing holding Sam Bennett, and any line he plays on, is Sam Bennett. He's the one who can't pass. He's the one who won't pass when he has opportunity. He's the one who can't hit the net. He's the one who gives the puck away more than he takes it away. He's the one who lets plays die on his stick, time after time. Sam Bennett is Sam Bennett's worst enemy. Thank god he's willing to run around and cause some mayhem, because he doesn't do much as far as generating scoring for the opportunity he's being gifted. For the opportunity he gets, he should be providing a lot more and generating more scoring. Flames would be lucky to have someone tie their hands and give up draft picks for Bennett.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

No. Sam Bennett is not a line driver. Sam Bennett is a third cog on any line he's been on. A line driver is someone who dictates the pace, dictates the control of the puck, and dictates the scoring on the line. Sam Bennett does none of the above. He's a guy who brings some grit and hustle to line. Nothing more.

I'm in the middle of this one.

Not ready to call him a line driver but also not joining you in the grit and hustle and nothing more overreaction to make a point.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I bet they offer Bennett a 2 year deal at $4.0 per year. It's more than what Treliving will be offering him. He'll ride shotgun for McDavid then re-negotiate a longer deal in the summer of 2020.

That's only a 2nd round pick in compensation.

Can the Oilers be that desperate?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What in the hell is a shot assist?

A pass?

https://public.tableau.com/profile/b...ared/D4FP42F2Q

Take a peek.

I filtered for this year. Sam is having a solid campaign. I echo the above sentiment, that he might just have a big breakout next season.

2x years of Gulutzan + 1x year for shoulder surgery.

Sam is on a good path. Lets see where it ends up.

Edit:

Nvm. Link isn't working.

But, I would encourage everyone to filter by Sam Bennet this year vs. Elias Lindholm from last year. Pretty comparable.

Filtering for William Karlsson in 2016-2017 (before his breakout year) and comparing against Bennett from this year, is also fascinating.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by New Era

No. Sam Bennett is not a line driver. Sam Bennett is a third cog on any line he's been on. A line driver is someone who dictates the pace, dictates the control of the puck, and dictates the scoring on the line. Sam Bennett does none of the above. He's a guy who brings some grit and hustle to line. Nothing more.

Completely disagree. If that offer came in there would be multiple front office staff warming up their cars. Bennett is a role player and any time you can get a first round pick for a role player you take it and run.

All depends where that first is likely to be. Top 10 then ya probably. Late first then hell no. Why would we trade Bennett for a pick that is not even likely to amount to a Bennett 5 years down the road?

[Harry Lime]

New Era, you make Bennett sound like the nerdy one from Fraggle Rock, arms flailing around as he runs in circles before he collides with a wall.

[Kybb79]

Mike Hoffman could be on the move according to Friedman i hope it's here.

[TheScorpion]

Not sure if the Flames need another pure finisher, but Hoffman is a very good player.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Mike Hoffman could be on the move according to Friedman i hope it's here.

I thought for sure Hoffman was going to be the price to negotiate early with a few blue jackets in the off season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Husky

I'm a big believer in Bennett but if any deal for Stone includes an extension I would be okay with including Bennett in the deal.

Flames today and going forward is a better team with Stone (signed longer term) then without him and Bennett on the team.

Was coming to say this - glad it's been brought up.

I am not in favour of shipping out a bunch more picks and prospects, but the idea of Stone is too delicious to ignore. And if we could get him, I would be more than willing to include Bennett in the deal, for a couple reasons:

1) one less RFA this summer that will be looking for a raise (and the only way Stone makes sense is if we re-sign him)
2) it means we wouldn't have to include Valimaki in the deal
3) I think Dube will be able to pretty much replace Bennett next year.

Something like: Bennett, our 1st, and something else (but not Valimaki or Dube), I could live with. And that is a pretty huge offer for a pending UFA.

Getting Stone would definitely mean that we would have to find a cheap backup for next year, as well as moving Frolik. But if we acquire Stone, and get him re-signed, maybe we can move Frolik at the deadline this year? Is he worth more now or in the summer?

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone
Dube - Ryan - Neal
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Hathaway

then go get Zuccarello

Gaudreau - Monahan - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Stone
Neal - Ryan - Zuccarello
Dube/Mang - Jankowski - Hathaway

that team is killer

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Sorry, but this is poor evaluation. Bennett is a line driver and a strong two way player. Virtanen is a guy who can shoot the puck really well. Bennett is far more valuable in every way, and point totals never tell enough of the story.

If Calgary was offered a 1st and a 3rd for Bennett, they would refuse that trade, the player is worth more to them on the ice than a 1st likely will be. He's our 6th leading forward scorer, by the way. Frolik may have higher PPG but we both know that's inflated by empty net goals. And Bennett hasn't had the luxury of James Neal having finish.

I also believe his passing in the defensive zone and neutral zone are way better than the offensive zone. In the offensive zone he seems to be afraid of getting his pass picked off, so he makes the safe low reward play, but in the other two zones he really sees the ice. Watch how consistently the team breakout goes through him, whether it's a play on the walls as a winger or his play down low as a center. I always get a kick out of people who say he's a bad center when he has aspects of his game that rival Backlund. Jankowski is the anchor on that line holding them back.

Look, the guy is a useful NHL player. I'm not saying he's not. I don't want to get rid of him.

I am saying there are areas of his game that, to this point, have prevented him from being the player we thought we were getting when he was drafted 4th overall. They are his passing and hockey sense. And a limited moveset.

Sam Bennett is allegedly one of the six or seven most skilled forwards on the team. Once it became clear that Bennett was never going to be close to what Monahan is as a centre, Bennett got a chance to be Elias Lindholm. Blame Gulutzan all you want, but who's fault is it that didn't work? Johnny? Sean? Glenn? No, it's Sam's fault.

Bennett has never had sustained success on the 2nd line with Backlund and Tkachuk. Is he unable to play right wing?

The last time Bennett forced his way onto the 1st powerplay unit, he was wearing a 63.

I'm not out of patience with Bennett, I don't think he sucks, and I know people develop at different rates. I just don't think he's as good as we hoped he'd be. And that's okay.

[TheScorpion]

Stone and Zuccarello and Tkachuk going forward? Are the Flames trading both Brodie and Hamonic?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Stone and Zuccarello and Tkachuk going forward? Are the Flames trading both Brodie and Hamonic?

Zuccerallo would be a pure rental

Frolik has to go. (the other) Stone is probably gone.

Cheap backup. No Bennett.

Talk to Brodie and Hamonic about re-signing cheap to win cups. If either bites, great, if not, you ride them for 2 more years and try to go deep in the playoffs, and then lose one in expansion.

[868904]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Not sure if the Flames need another pure finisher, but Hoffman is a very good player.

As if there wasn't enough intrigue in the rivalry with the Sharks. I'd acquire Hoffman just for how much fun it would be for a playoff series vs the Sharks.