2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[David Struch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What in the hell is a shot assist?

A pass?

A primary assist?

And the secondary assist would be the a pass assist?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'd be thrilled getting anyone's first round pick for Sam Bennett. I get that he works hard, but you can get hard workers in the later rounds of the draft. Take the picks, run, and laugh when the other GM gets canned.

I think it is the edge he plays with and the toughness he brings. He has reeled in the bad penalties this year and just needs to be more consistent offensively.

The Flames have had a couple of guys picked in the 20’s turn out over the past 15 years in Backlund and Jankowski but we had to wait 5+ years for either to make an impact. Plenty of busts the n the 2000’s when the Flames pick 20-30. We could easily be trading Bennett for a Chucko, Pelech, Irving, Nemisz, Erixon, Poirier, Klimchuk or a guy that wouldn’t be around to help this current core win.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If Bennett could pass the puck, he'd be a $6M player. It's not a strength.

That's false. Bennett does not have the delicacy to attempt the classic tic tac toe passes through the middle like a Gaudreau or a Tkachuk. He's still a comparable passer to some of our top six guys - Backlund, even Monahan, and by far one of the two best passers in our bottom six along with Ryan. He passes better than your average NHLer. Those guys are on our top six because they are better at other areas of the game, not passing. This season alone you could compile a list of very nice passes he's made.

Virtanen would be the single worst passer on our entire roster, bar none. Worse than Jankowski or Hathaway even.

I can't believe you think Virtanen and Bennett are in the same stratusphere as passers.

[Gundo]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

If Bennett ever scores 72 points in a season, I'll eat a sock.

Me and my size 15 feet will gladly provide your meal if this ever happens. Please let me know if you prefer white or dark socks.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's false. Bennett does not have the delicacy to attempt the classic tic tac toe passes through the middle like a Gaudreau or a Tkachuk. He's still a comparable passer to some of our top six guys - Backlund, even Monahan, and by far one of the two best passers in our bottom six along with Ryan. He passes better than your average NHLer. Those guys are on our top six because they are better at other areas of the game, not passing. This season alone you could compile a list of very nice passes he's made.

Virtanen would be the single worst passer on our entire roster, bar none. Worse than Jankowski or Hathaway even.

I can't believe you think Virtanen and Bennett are in the same stratusphere as passers.

I simply can't believe anyone would think this.

Stunned.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's false. Bennett does not have the delicacy to attempt the classic tic tac toe passes through the middle like a Gaudreau or a Tkachuk. He's still a comparable passer to some of our top six guys - Backlund, even Monahan, and by far one of the two best passers in our bottom six along with Ryan. He passes better than your average NHLer. Those guys are on our top six because they are better at other areas of the game, not passing. This season alone you could compile a list of very nice passes he's made.

Virtanen would be the single worst passer on our entire roster, bar none. Worse than Jankowski or Hathaway even.

I can't believe you think Virtanen and Bennett are in the same stratusphere as passers.

Over the last 3 years he averages out to be a 3rd liner based on assists (216th, based on a 31 team league). I wouldn't call that above average.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

That's false. Bennett does not have the delicacy to attempt the classic tic tac toe passes through the middle like a Gaudreau or a Tkachuk. He's still a comparable passer to some of our top six guys - Backlund, even Monahan, and by far one of the two best passers in our bottom six along with Ryan. He passes better than your average NHLer. Those guys are on our top six because they are better at other areas of the game, not passing. This season alone you could compile a list of very nice passes he's made.

Virtanen would be the single worst passer on our entire roster, bar none. Worse than Jankowski or Hathaway even.

I can't believe you think Virtanen and Bennett are in the same stratusphere as passers.

Fine, Bennett's a better passer than Virtanen. But on his list of strengths, it's not top 5. But if you're saying he lacks the delicacy to make high end passes, by definition that means he's not great at it.

I can recall one play in Bennett's entire career where he made a noteworthy pass that ended in a goal - that filthy give and go with Johnny against the Sharks. Most of the time, he holds the puck too long and runs out of room. He's not a great passer; if he was, he'd have hit 20 assists in a year at least once, given the PP time he's received.

Monahan is an underrated passer. He makes deft plays every game. Backlund as well. If Bennett could pass the way those guys do, he'd still be a centre.

[Robbob]

Edmonton doesn't have their own 3rd to make an offer sheet on.
What they could do is the $1,826,328-to-$3,652,659 for a second-round pick. An offer in the 3M+ would throw a wretch in some cap management plans as you would need to match as Bennett has more value than a 2nd.

[Harry Lime]

If Bennett ever gets it through his head to look for a pass one move earlier than he is now, he has the potential to be a Cory Perry type of player (minus the douchiness).

Get him under contract first, and then teach him to look around two seconds earlier.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by transplant99

What in the hell is a shot assist?

A pass?

An offensive zone pass that immediately creates a shot. Obviously setting up Alex Ovechkin is more likely to get you an actual assist compared to setting up Garnet Hathaway, but both sets would be considered equally as shot assists.

Guys like Gaudreau, McDavid, Tkachuk and Crosby are the kind of guys who make up the top 97-98 percentile of shot assists. The kind of guys whose passing creates a shot pretty much every time they are out there. Bennett's not elite like these guys, that's obvious. But he does pass and his passes do create shots. He can't control the shooting skill of his linemates and no one is arguing that there aren't different quality levels of a pass.

Jake Virtanen on the other hand either never pass or his passes never even create shots. You shouldn't even need any stats to know that, but I bought the stat up because I it was just such a WTF statement that I had to outline just how great the disparity between Bennett and Virtanen as passers is.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

An offensive zone pass that immediately creates a shot. Obviously setting up Alex Ovechkin is more likely to get you an actual assist compared to setting up Garnet Hathaway, but both sets would be considered equally as shot assists.

Guys like Gaudreau, McDavid, Tkachuk and Crosby are the kind of guys who make up the top 97-98 percentile of shot assists. The kind of guys whose passing creates a shot pretty much every time they are out there. Bennett's not elite like these guys, that's obvious. But he does pass and his passes do create shots. He can't control the shooting skill of his linemates and no one is arguing that there aren't different quality levels of a pass.

Jake Virtanen on the other hand either never pass or his passes never even create shots. You shouldn't even need any stats to know that, but I bought the stat up because I it was just such a WTF statement that I had to outline just how great the disparity between Bennett and Virtanen as passers is.

Thank you for the shot assist clarification.

However better a passer Bennett is than Virtanen, Sam has 5 more points in the last 18 months. If either team was offered an unprotected 1st and 3rd for either player, they take that deal and call no take backs.

[Royle9]

I know none of us posters on here are GM's for any NHL team but man alive some of the trade scenarios mentioned are extreme brain trauma as a result of severe head scratching.

Nobody is taking our fringe 13th forwards/pop corn eaters/inflated contracts and giving us a "top 15" player in the league. It's NOT happening, 0% likelihood.

Any conversation for Stone starts with 1st, Dube + Valamaki (not either or) or Ottawa hangs up the phone.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Edmonton doesn't have their own 3rd to make an offer sheet on.
What they could do is the $1,826,328-to-$3,652,659 for a second-round pick. An offer in the 3M+ would throw a wretch in some cap management plans as you would need to match as Bennett has more value than a 2nd.

Picks would be 2020 considering RFA’s wouldn’t be eligible to sign an offer sheet until after the 2019 draft. Did the Oil trade their 2020 3rd already?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I know none of us posters on here are GM's for any NHL team but man alive some of the trade scenarios mentioned are extreme brain trauma as a result of severe head scratching.

Nobody is taking our fringe 13th forwards/pop corn eaters/inflated contracts and giving us a "top 15" player in the league. It's NOT happening, 0% likelihood.

Any conversation for Stone starts with 1st, Dube + Valamaki (not either or) or Ottawa hangs up the phone.

Please tell me when a rental has included a 1st and a teams top 2 prospects that have both played in the NHL

Ottawa should take your offer all day and high five that they got such good talent for 20-30 games of Stone

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Please tell me when a rental has included a 1st and a teams top 2 prospects that have both played in the NHL

Ottawa should take your offer all day and high five that they got such good talent for 20-30 games of Stone

Nobody is going to go full rental on Stone, so let's assume every scenario is a trade & sign because that's what its going to be.

Thomas Tatar went for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd ... and he's not even CLOSE to what Stone is.
Dougie went for 1st and 2 2nd's and arguably not as "generational" as Stone.

1st, Dube, Frolik, Czarnik is doing the flames a HUGE favor, its not helping Ottawa.

I can play that too:

Please tell me when a generational talent (top 15 in the NHL) has hit UFA status on his current team and has been out for tender that has gone for less than that.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Over the last 3 years he averages out to be a 3rd liner based on assists (216th, based on a 31 team league). I wouldn't call that above average.

Using stats from the GG era is a sure sign of someone who just wants to cut bait on Bennett..

Gully basically attempted to run his career off a cliff.

He has had a great season so far, with some bad luck and could produce a bit better offensively but if you lose him out of this lineup you lose the only truly physical force in the top 9 and other than hathaway and thachuk he is the only one out there throwing hits.

If he gets traded fine but it had best be for something that improves this teams chances to win playoff series in the next three years more than he does and I really don't see how you move him

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Please tell me when a rental has included a 1st and a teams top 2 prospects that have both played in the NHL

Ottawa should take your offer all day and high five that they got such good talent for 20-30 games of Stone

I suspect that in order to extract enough value out of the asset, Ottawa will grant team's access to re-sign him. I don't think they will looking at an ROI on the basis of a pure rental.
And I still think they will eventually re-sign him themselves.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

Using stats from the GG era is a sure sign of someone who just wants to cut bait on Bennett..

Gully basically attempted to run his career off a cliff.

He has had a great season so far, with some bad luck and could produce a bit better offensively but if you lose him out of this lineup you lose the only truly physical force in the top 9 and other than hathaway and thachuk he is the only one out there throwing hits.

If he gets traded fine but it had best be for something that improves this teams chances to win playoff series in the next three years more than he does and I really don't see how you move him

I'm not trying to run Bennett out of town. I think he provides a lot of what people think Ferland provided. I think he's better than Ferland.

All I'm saying is if the Oilers want to offersheet him, you take that deal and run because the Oilers will still be a tire fire and there's a very good chance that 1st is top-15.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Thank you for the shot assist clarification.

However better a passer Bennett is than Virtanen, Sam has 5 more points in the last 18 months. If either team was offered an unprotected 1st and 3rd for either player, they take that deal and call no take backs.

Sorry, but this is poor evaluation. Bennett is a line driver and a strong two way player. Virtanen is a guy who can shoot the puck really well. Bennett is far more valuable in every way, and point totals never tell enough of the story.

If Calgary was offered a 1st and a 3rd for Bennett, they would refuse that trade, the player is worth more to them on the ice than a 1st likely will be. He's our 6th leading forward scorer, by the way. Frolik may have higher PPG but we both know that's inflated by empty net goals. And Bennett hasn't had the luxury of James Neal having finish.

As for not remembering many nice passes by Bennett leading to goals? I think that's poor recollection on your part. Off the top of my head:

Rookie Season
- a perfect stretch pass to Mason Raymond vs STL
- a great feed from behind the net to TJ Brodie against the grain vs EDM
- a beautiful two man game with Frolik on the right side from behind the goal line, off his backhand to boot, against the Caps
- spins off on Sidney Crosby with some nice edges, hits a streaking Colborne right in the slot on the tape
- a really clean, hard cross ice feed to Brodie, whi then feeds it back across to Backlund for the tap in, dunno who against
- another backhand assist to Ferland, maybe Colborne ?against the Coyotes

2nd season
Makes a ridiculous pass to Chiasson against the grain from behind the net against Boston
The Gaudreau goal you mentioned

3rd season
A really nice pass on the PP from the slot over to Ferland for a one timer
Really nice feed across the ice to Jagr, who spots Janko
Another on the power play where he spots Janko from behind the net

This season:
The dropoff to Neal for a wide open net
A sexy drop pass back to Gaudreau, who then passed it to Monahan and Hamonic got the tip in.

That's a few just going by memory. To go with probably some other nice ones I forget and a lot of really rock solid simple plays that are nice reads - see his assist on Hanifin's goal in the most recent game.

I also believe his passing in the defensive zone and neutral zone are way better than the offensive zone. In the offensive zone he seems to be afraid of getting his pass picked off, so he makes the safe low reward play, but in the other two zones he really sees the ice. Watch how consistently the team breakout goes through him, whether it's a play on the walls as a winger or his play down low as a center. I always get a kick out of people who say he's a bad center when he has aspects of his game that rival Backlund. Jankowski is the anchor on that line holding them back.

[killer_carlson]

I bet they offer Bennett a 2 year deal at $4.0 per year. It's more than what Treliving will be offering him. He'll ride shotgun for McDavid then re-negotiate a longer deal in the summer of 2020.

That's only a 2nd round pick in compensation.