American Politics 4.0 - Orangeyou Glad He’s Back?

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think the “projection” (by the Trump admin) was tariffs on everyone bringing in about $6T per year and the federal income taxes based on 2022/2023 look to be about $4-5T so what am I missing? Over simplistic stupidity here I’m sure but help a stupid person out.

$6T was over 10 years, so about $600M a year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by troutman

That’s when the USA defeats the alien invasion.

Darn, I was hoping the aliens would defeat the USA and liberate us from their stupidity.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

I think the “projection” (by the Trump admin) was tariffs on everyone bringing in about $6T per year and the federal income taxes based on 2022/2023 look to be about $4-5T so what am I missing? Over simplistic stupidity here I’m sure but help a stupid person out.

what tariffs really are as Trump is doing it are a federal sales tax of 25%, but two things will happen, one companies will onshore production but they wont provide the 'good manufacturing jobs' because they cost too much, especially without cheap migrant labor, so the factories will be as close to fully automated as possible, the second thing is people will just buy less (which also reduces employment)

The effect will be much lower than predicted revenue and a recession, good times!!

[Itse]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

what tariffs really are as Trump is doing it are a federal sales tax of 25%, but two things will happen, one companies will onshore production but they wont provide the 'good manufacturing jobs' because they cost too much, especially without cheap migrant labor, so the factories will be as close to fully automated as possible, the second thing is people will just buy less (which also reduces employment)

The effect will be much lower than predicted revenue and a recession, good times!!

Those are huge investment moves, so it's unlikely anything will happen with them for a long time.

Big investments want a predictable economic and legislative environment, a friendly government, and preferably a promising economic development for the country, since the plan would be to build things for the local market, not the international one.

The US is lead by a drug addicted fascist and a senile narcissist who can provide none of those, and the country is looking like a collapsing empire with the worst days of political and economic instability still ahead.

[missdpuck]

Originally Posted by Itse

Those are huge investment moves, so it's unlikely anything will happen with them for a long time.

Big investments want a predictable economic and legislative environment, a friendly government, and preferably a promising economic development for the country, since the plan would be to build things for the local market, not the international one.

The US is lead by a drug addicted fascist and a senile narcissist who can provide none of those, and the country is looking like a collapsing empire with the worst days of political and economic instability still ahead.

Interestingly enough, our local Suomi Talo has become a great place for even us non-Finns to gather where we won’t be lambasted by MAGA crap.

I used to go there to watch hockey once in a while years ago.

It’s an unassuming place, but it got a bit of publicity when Geoff Tate had his NYE party there.

We are grateful to you Finns.

[puffnstuff]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...tat-rcna199010

The United States government accidentally deported a man to El Salvador due to an "administrative error," landing him in a#notorious mega-jail#and leaving him stuck there in legal limbo, according to legal papers filed on Monday.

Kilmar Arbrego Garcia came to the U.S. in 2011 from El Salvador and is a legal resident protected by a 2019 court order that prevented him from being sent back to his home country.

But, in court papers filed Monday, the government admitted that "on March 15, although ICE was aware of his protection from removal to El Salvador, Abrego Garcia was removed to El Salvador because of an administrative error."

...the government said that the U.S. courts don't have jurisdiction to seek his release.

Just cruel and incompetent all the way around.

[Fuzz]

The number of lawsuits that are going to be filled when this all shakes out are gonna keep lawyers busy for decades.

[puffnstuff]

Probably why trump has been going after law firms like he has.
'Cant sue me if theres no lawyers'

[Itse]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Interestingly enough, our local Suomi Talo has become a great place for even us non-Finns to gather where we won’t be lambasted by MAGA crap.

I used to go there to watch hockey once in a while years ago.

It’s an unassuming place, but it got a bit of publicity when Geoff Tate had his NYE party there.

We are grateful to you Finns.

Unfortunately our country is heading exactly the same direction as the US currently, just not at the same speed.

But here too our "moderate economic right" realized they don't have to be moderate or economic if they team with the far-right.

Of course that has lead to ballooning government debt, skyrocketing unemployment, crumbling public healthcare and education levels and all the things the "centrist" right said they were against.

None of it matters, they're heading for another election win anyway, so I guess this is what our country wants

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Buddy of mine thinks (total speculation I think) that Trump’s going to announce elimination of US federal income taxes the day after Liberation Day to generate support for the tariffs and entice Canadians to join them. Loss in tax rev offset by tariffs. Would this make sense in any way shape or form?

Just think about it for one second:

Youre a government. You need money to operate. One of the easiest ways to gain money is to apply a tax to every purchase and collect a portion of it. You know this as a GST, some places it is called VAT but is essentially the same thing. There are some elegant elements to this; essentially it's like a user fee, the more you buy the more you pay in.

Over time however, it is noticed that the richest people will pay disproportionately less on a scheme like this for a number of factors. Ultimately, their overall tax burden is low because most of the burden falls on their corporations or similar and not on the earnings they derive. To correct this, income taxes were conceived to balance the system a bit- the more money you earn or take in, the more you end up paying in taxes. This is kind of a recognizance of the structural imbalances in the system that allow someone rich to quickly become richer while keeping poor people relatively poor.

A tariff is more similar to the VAT/GST, but realistically only applies to goods coming into the market from elsewhere. However, there's a long term problem here if the goal is to onshore all manufacturing, as ultimately this reduces the tariff income in the long term.

So, 2 things are happening here:
1. They are reverting to a less fair/balanced tax generation system if they favor consumption taxes over income taxes.
2. They're setting the system up to fail; even if they are right about the near term, the tariff proceeds will dwindle and dry up as more manufacturing moves back in market. If more manufacturing doesnt move back into the USA, it is really the consumers that will be bearing the entirety of the new tax, and disproportionately the poor. If more manufacturing does, another new tax will be required as the US government will not take in enough revenue to fund its debt or operations as the tariff revenue falls in later years.

[EldrickOnIce]

If you eliminated federal income tax for any individual earning less than X, family earning less than Y it would be interesting. No VAT/GST. Put more money in the hands of low earners and they will spend it. Drive the economy. Give people some spending power who currently have none.
This would never happen in America

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

If you eliminated federal income tax for any individual earning less than X, family earning less than Y it would be interesting. No VAT/GST. Put more money in the hands of low earners and they will spend it. Drive the economy. Give people some spending power who currently have none.
This would never happen in America

Has Canada's lowest income tax rate always been 15%. It's for a long as i can remember.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Nancy

A shocking 40% of US households do not pay any income tax, and the middle earning households are paying only $10,000 in federal tax per household, so most people would be quite a bit worse off.

This is actually a crazy stat and many economists have harped on this as a big reason for US deficit spending.

While many Dems want to import wealth taxes or higher taxes on high earners, like European countries, many economist point out that, to be like Europe, the US would need to substantially increase taxes on the middle/low classes.

Many nordic countries starting income tax is over 40%; plus big VATs

[BeltlineFan]

Senator Cory Booker, a democrat from NJ, started speaking last night at 7pm ET in protest of actions taken by President Donald Trump’s administration. He's still going right now over 17 hours later, just pausing a few times to take questions from other democrats. The record is a little over 24 hours from Strom Thurmond protesting the Civil Rights Act in 1957.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

If you eliminated federal income tax for any individual earning less than X, family earning less than Y it would be interesting. No VAT/GST. Put more money in the hands of low earners and they will spend it. Drive the economy. Give people some spending power who currently have none.
This would never happen in America

That first part is already in place, although pretty low levels. The first 14,600 is tax free for singles, and 29,200 for Married couples. Add in the refundable tax credits for children and most families aren't paying any federal income tax up to about $50k. And some will get money at tax time from EIC refundable credits.

Some of the low income tax talked about here doesn't factor in everything. Middle class-upper middle class in VA will end up paying about 35% when you add up Federal income tax, State income tax, and the 2 federal payroll taxes. With the removal of SALT, middle income earners in states with state taxes ended up paying quite a bit more federal income tax with Trump's tax "cuts" last time around.

[activeStick]

Some Pam Bondi news...

Seeking 20 years for the fire bombing of Tesla dealerships and cars

https://twitter.com/user/status/1906851376044687438

And she can't help but bring up Hillary's emails.... The US is ####ed

https://twitter.com/user/status/1905297129104400843

[KootenayFlamesFan]

If Bondi is so concerned with handing out punishments for domestic terrorism just wait until she hears about what happened on January 6th 2021.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Cappy

This is actually a crazy stat and many economists have harped on this as a big reason for US deficit spending.

While many Dems want to import wealth taxes or higher taxes on high earners, like European countries, many economist point out that, to be like Europe, the US would need to substantially increase taxes on the middle/low classes.

Many nordic countries starting income tax is over 40%; plus big VATs

As a taxi driver I pay around 36% here in Helsinki, that includes county/city taxes which are more than half of the whole. Would be roughly the same in Denmark and Sweden.

Lowest income tax (up to 15k EUR/year) would be about 23-31% depending on where exactly you live.

Income taxes are really not as high here as people think.

Additionally, there's a ton of tax loopholes for people in the high income brackets, just like everywhere else.

[WideReceiver]

I swore at the radio this morning with a caller with Shea Ganam who wants a referendum so Alberta can join the US. He says he lives in St. Albert and there are more U.S. than Canadian flags. I was recently in SA and that’s pure bu11$h1t. He said the vote would favour joining the U.S. Ganam’s producer lives in St. Albert and says the flag thing is nonsense.

[WideReceiver]

Moving comment to the Musk thread….