2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Royle9

It's ironic that many of you tout Stone as a top 15 "generational" talent and then have him signing with the Flames for 8M.

You cant have both, he's going to get PAID because he's GOOD.
You're not going to trade a late 1st, Dube and 1 other asset for Mark Stone. If you were Ottawa would you take that deal? Take off the rose colored glasses guys, I think we're over valuing some of our assets here.

Would you take say the 27th pick, Dube and Frolik for Johnny or Sean? We'd be laughing at that, and yet you have Stone slotted in as the same "skill" level.

There's way more teams that can offer better than what the Flames can. It would be more like:

1st
Dube
Valamaki
B-prospect or 2nd/3rd

and I'm honestly not even sure that get's it done.

The chances of Mark Stone becoming a flame are almost 0% because between the cost to trade and the cost to sign him just dont work. You can get upset at that all you want and try and blame that on me being "ignorant" to it but that's simply not the case. The dollars dont add up.

You're not trading away Frolik/Brodie in the off-season for nothing but assets and no contracts back, Stones easily going to get 9M on the open market based on how good we all say he is.

If that's what it takes then you don't do it. Nobody is saying that 1st, Dube, Frolik gets it done, just saying that's what we are willing to give up.

And remember that Stone is a rental so he won't get as much as you would think in a trade. What other team is going to give up a 1st, their top D prospect, and their top forward prospect, plus a 2nd/3rd for a rental?

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

If that's what it takes then you don't do it. Nobody is saying that 1st, Dube, Frolik gets it done, just saying that's what we are willing to give up.

And remember that Stone is a rental so he won't get as much as you would think in a trade. What other team is going to give up a 1st, their top D prospect, and their top forward prospect, plus a 2nd/3rd for a rental?

I understand its what we're willing to give up, but its too much for just a pure rental of Mark Stone, so you only make the trade if its a SIGN and trade in which case its not enough.

The problem is, Dube and Valamaki may be OUR top prospects (and I love both dont get me wrong) but they are unproven at this point.

Would you take that exact return for Johnny from Ottawa if it were reversed? I wouldn't.

Johnny for 28th pick, Dube and Valamaki? Having seen what both Dube and Valamaki are today, I'd wager we'd hold on and try to sign Johnny or look to flip him for a better 1st/more proven assets.

[wired]

I'm not convinced that the Flames will make a big move before the trade deadline.
Chemistry in the room is supposed to be very good atm, do you mess with it?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand its what we're willing to give up, but its too much for just a pure rental of Mark Stone, so you only make the trade if its a SIGN and trade in which case its not enough.

The problem is, Dube and Valamaki may be OUR top prospects (and I love both dont get me wrong) but they are unproven at this point.

Would you take that exact return for Johnny from Ottawa if it were reversed? I wouldn't.

Johnny for 28th pick, Dube and Valamaki? Having seen what both Dube and Valamaki are today, I'd wager we'd hold on and try to sign Johnny or look to flip him for a better 1st/more proven assets.

I don't want a sign and trade - I want a trade and sign (because Treliving is better at GMing than Dorion). So if the trade is rental based but has conditional adds then I'm happier.

[bigrangy]

If one thinks that they can sign Stone to a deal, why not just wait and sign him in the summer?

Keep some assets that the Flames don't really need to spend right now.

You might have to use some of them to ship off Neal for some cap room anyways.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't want a sign and trade - I want a trade and sign (because Treliving is better at GMing than Dorion). So if the trade is rental based but has conditional adds then I'm happier.

Agreed, in that scenario its better if we negotiate for sure. But then that brings me to how much we can afford to give him VS's what he's actually worth.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand its what we're willing to give up, but its too much for just a pure rental of Mark Stone, so you only make the trade if its a SIGN and trade in which case its not enough.

The problem is, Dube and Valamaki may be OUR top prospects (and I love both dont get me wrong) but they are unproven at this point.

Would you take that exact return for Johnny from Ottawa if it were reversed? I wouldn't.

Johnny for 28th pick, Dube and Valamaki? Having seen what both Dube and Valamaki are today, I'd wager we'd hold on and try to sign Johnny or look to flip him for a better 1st/more proven assets.

Bad comparison with Gaudreau who has 3 years left on a great contract. If we were last place in the league and Gaudreau was almost certainly walking I would gladly take a 1st, Dube, Valimaki type package. A first and 2 guys that will be a lock to play in the coming years with decent upside would be good for a rental.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by Royle9

I understand its what we're willing to give up, but its too much for just a pure rental of Mark Stone, so you only make the trade if its a SIGN and trade in which case its not enough.

The problem is, Dube and Valamaki may be OUR top prospects (and I love both dont get me wrong) but they are unproven at this point.

Would you take that exact return for Johnny from Ottawa if it were reversed? I wouldn't.

Johnny for 28th pick, Dube and Valamaki? Having seen what both Dube and Valamaki are today, I'd wager we'd hold on and try to sign Johnny or look to flip him for a better 1st/more proven assets.

Well if Stone isn't signed by TDL and it looks like he won't be signing at all, team isn't making playoffs this year either, that is best offer on the table... Then ya, as an Ottawa fan I would be happier with that than seeing him leave for nothing.

And hopefully it doesn't come to this point with Johnny. If he's not willing to sign an extension when he is eligible, then maybe Flames should look at dealing him with a year left on his contract.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by goflamesgo18

Well if Stone isn't signed by TDL and it looks like he won't be signing at all, team isn't making playoffs this year either, that is best offer on the table... Then ya, as an Ottawa fan I would be happier with that than seeing him leave for nothing.

And hopefully it doesn't come to this point with Johnny. If he's not willing to sign an extension when he is eligible, then maybe Flames should look at dealing him with a year left on his contract.

Johnny isn't going anywhere. He might play a year or two at the end of his career in Philly but I have no doubt he will sign another long term deal after this one.

[Robbob]

If Stone is looking for a pay day then Calgary is out, unless they want to treat him as a pure rental for this year (which would still cost a pretty penny). What could intrigue Stone is playing with his brother, but after just going through a brother act, is keeping defenseman Stone on the roster worth it. I mean his 3.5M salary has been circled as one of the potential salaries they could off load to find money for Tkachuk.

I would love Forward Stone on the roster but Treliving would have to wizard the crap out everything to make it work.

[goflamesgo18]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Johnny isn't going anywhere. He might play a year or two at the end of his career in Philly but I have no doubt he will sign another long term deal after this one.

I hope so

[TheScorpion]

The Flames needing to "find money" for Tkachuk is a myth. As it stands, they'll have $17 million in cap space in the summer. Even if Tkachuk costs $8 million, that still leaves $9 million to re-sign Rittich, Bennett, and Hathaway -- and that's while keeping Michael Stone, Frolik, and Brodie.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

If one thinks that they can sign Stone to a deal, why not just wait and sign him in the summer?

Well, for starters, you get him for this year. The Flames are at their best in recent history and Stone could be that final piece.

Two, you get a significant period to negotiate with him exclusively. Let him become familiar with the team and the city (maybe it's best the Flames wait until it's not -30 out...).

And finally, you get the ability to offer an 8 year contract.For a player that will be 27, a contract that brings him to 35 with an extra 8-9M might be more tempting than a 7 year contract offer from other teams.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think Dube is going to be a great 3rd liner.
But if you can get Stone, who is a top line player, and have him part of the go-forward core - I do that without hesitation
Like T99 Valimaki is a deal breaker.

Even if Stone re-signs?

I tend to agree that Valimaki is going to be a top pairing player. But, when?

Our window with this core is the next 2-4 years. Having Mark Stone in his prime anchoring a line with Tkachuk and Backlund might be what it takes to win.

No one overly laments trading Hull. But the only reason that's the case is because we won the cup.

I'd have the same feeling towards Valimaki if we traded him and he becomes that number 1 d-man, but only if we win. Otherwise....

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The Flames needing to "find money" for Tkachuk is a myth. As it stands, they'll have $17 million in cap space in the summer. Even if Tkachuk costs $8 million, that still leaves $9 million to re-sign Rittich, Bennett, and Hathaway -- and that's while keeping Michael Stone, Frolik, and Brodie.

And either promote Gillies or find another goalie, re-sign Mangiapane or replacement, re-sign or replace Prout.

Its actually pretty tight especially if you want some wiggle room during the season which is always preferable.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And either promote Gillies or find another goalie, re-sign Mangiapane or replacement, re-sign or replace Prout.

Its actually pretty tight especially if you want some wiggle room during the season which is always preferable.

Not really.

$9 million can be divvied up like so, I think reasonably:

$5 million total for Bennett and Rittich
$1 million for Hathaway
$1 million for a backup
$700k for Mangiapane

That leaves $1.3 million, plenty of wiggle room. The figure of $17 million in cap space already accounted for 7 defensemen on the roster next year (including Kylington and Valimaki). Mangiapane hasn't done anything to warrant a raise. And this is all assuming that Tkachuk gets $8 million, which is probably a fair bit higher than he'll actually get.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

And this is all assuming that Tkachuk gets $8 million, which is probably a fair bit higher than he'll actually get.

Player A -52gp 22g 29a 51pts

Player B - 53gp 24g 33a 57pts


Player A is Mark Stone who's looking to command 8.5M + a season and rightfully so (long term)
Player B is Matthew Tkachuk who you say will make/take significantly less than 8M coming into the biggest contract year of his career.

Yea... about that.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Player A -52gp 22g 29a 51pts

Player B - 53gp 24g 33a 57pts


Player A is Mark Stone who's looking to command 8.5M + a season
Player B is Matthew Tkachuk who you say will make significantly less than 8M.

Yea... about that.

Mark Stone is an unrestricted free-agent who will be fielding offers from well over a dozen teams. Matthew Tkachuk is a restricted free-agent who can only negotiate with Calgary, save for very, very rare exceptions. Tkachuk's leverage is significantly lower. Also, Stone has been consistently elite for much longer than Tkachuk, who is in the midst of his first 50-point season in the NHL. Stone is also currently being courted by a hilariously desperate Senators team, centralizing even more leverage upon his shoulders.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't want a sign and trade - I want a trade and sign (because Treliving is better at GMing than Dorion). So if the trade is rental based but has conditional adds then I'm happier.

Firstly, Stone would only sign as a condition of the trade, so whether he signs technically before or after the trade, makes little difference per se.

Secondly, the negotiations for this would be done by Tre in either case.

Thirdly, by signing before the trade, it would be an 8 year contract, not 7.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Player A -52gp 22g 29a 51pts

Player B - 53gp 24g 33a 57pts


Player A is Mark Stone who's looking to command 8.5M + a season and rightfully so (long term)
Player B is Matthew Tkachuk who you say will make significantly less than 8M.

Yea... about that.

Well, one has a track record that's a fair bit longer, and is a UFA. The other has two years history and is an RFA (with no arb rights I think).