2018/2019 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Agreed....but Valimaki is the deal breaker for me.

Also agreed.

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube is going to be a great player.

I'll take that bet.

Even so, I just cant see having success with a bunch of smaller guys like him. I think we have our quota already.

More importantly, I think that'd be an easy sell to the Ottawa/Gatineau region if your suspicions are correct

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Oh, I think they may well expose Gio. And if they do,. I think he's a pretty easy choice because 38 year old Gio will be equal to a lot of equally priced defencemen even at that age.

I expect that there will be a deal by Treliving prior thereto, to avoid all of that, though.

Why would he avoid that? We're talking about a 38 year old. If that means that the Flames keep all of Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson, other signings or surprises (Brodie/Hamonic/UFA), Treliving will probably be begging for them to take Gio.

I love Gio, but 38 year olds don't have the best track record in the NHL. Iginla was still a 30 goal scorer at 37 but done by 39.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think Dube is going to be a great 3rd liner.
But if you can get Stone, who is a top line player, and have him part of the go-forward core - I do that without hesitation
Like T99 Valimaki is a deal breaker.

[Monahammer]

I would do dube and a 1st for stone. Agree that valimaki is too much. I do think stone gets us closer to the cup though and that should be what matters most

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why would he avoid that? We're talking about a 38 year old. If that means that the Flames keep all of Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson, other signings or surprises (Brodie/Hamonic/UFA), Treliving will probably be begging for them to take Gio.

I love Gio, but 38 year olds don't have the best track record in the NHL. Iginla was still a 30 goal scorer at 37 but done by 39.

35 year olds don't have the best track record in the NHL either. Yet Giordano is pacing for the Norris Trophy at 35. Guys to win the Norris at 35 in the last like, four decades is tiny:

Al MacInnis - played til 39, 2nd in Norris voting at 39
Lidstrom - played til 42, went on to win three more Norris trophies


That's it. That's the list. And Giordano has a chance to join that list. So yeah, he's already an exception to the rules going forward.


And even for guys with second place finishes at Gio's current age you have a guy like Zdeno Chara, who was very much a top pairing defenseman at 38, was protected in an expansion draft, and is actually still a 20 minute a game Dman at 41



Gio's also the captain of our team, and a far better two way player than Iginla ever was. There are off-ice reasons the team would not want to lose him, every time a prospect is brought in they are told to do nothing but watch Mark Giordano off the ice. His work ethic is unrivalled and the fact that it carries on-ice success with it reflects well upon emulating him.



Your rush to throw away the single most important aspect of this team - our current top pair - astounds me. This team is not even in a playoff spot without Giordano and Brodie and at this point none of Valimaki, Kylington, or Andersson have shown that even they are top 4 defensemen. I'm not even sure Andersson will be with the organization by the time expansion rolls around, with his brutal underlying numbers he's trending the Markus Granlund way of a AAAA player with some special teams utility. Even Hanifin is also no lock to be better than Giordano three years from now.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why would he avoid that? We're talking about a 38 year old. If that means that the Flames keep all of Hanifin, Valimaki, Kylington, Andersson, other signings or surprises (Brodie/Hamonic/UFA), Treliving will probably be begging for them to take Gio.

I love Gio, but 38 year olds don't have the best track record in the NHL. Iginla was still a 30 goal scorer at 37 but done by 39.

Because he's Gio, and he could possibly make some trades that improve the team by getting draft protected assets. I kinda doubt that anyone will be "begging" Seattle to take Gio. If they leave him unprotected it will be reluctantly. It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Bruins protected Chara who was older.

You qualified all of this by saying that it's the situation if all those players are kept. On that I agree. But stuff happens and trades are made ahead of the draft purely for that purpose.

[Heavy Jack]

1st
Frolik
Dube

for


Stone ~ On the basis that we can and will extend him.


Czarnik
4th


for


Zuccarello

Offseason


Brodie


for


top 15 1st

Playoffs:


Gaudreau ~ Monahan ~ Lindholm

Tkachuk ~ Backlund ~ Stone

Bennett ~ Jankowski ~ Neal

Hathaway ~ Ryan ~ Zuccarello

Mangiapane, Quine



Giordano ~ Brodie

Hanifin ~ Hamonic

Kylington ~ Andersson

Valimaki ~ Stone

Prout


Rittich

Smith

[Moneyhands23]

If BT trades Valamaki then he is not the man I think he is!

Guy is not to be moved

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Czarnik
4th

for

Zuccarello

I'm just not sure how a fringe NHL player and 4th round pick is going to get us a legitimate top 6F

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Your rush to throw away the single most important aspect of this team - our current top pair - astounds me.

We're not talking about 35 year old Giordano. We're talking about 38 year old Giordano. And we're not giving him away for free. I mean, when you're bringing up one of the best defenders of all-time to make a point, then it's probably not a realistic one.

Here's the simple argument. Would you rather have 38 year old Giordano, who likely makes double, or the 25 year old Andersson? I'm thinking it won't be much of a conversation when it gets to 2021.

Also Chara over Collin Miller was likely a mistake. Miller is putting up a lot of points and playing a lot of time, while Chara - given his age it's not a surprise - has missed a lot of time due to injury. Not that it mattered, as it wasn't a decision. Chara had to be protected given his NMC...

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube is going to be a great player. I still think he outplayed Mangiapane and Czarnik (but not Quine). Him and a pick for a rental? Nope, not even for Stone. Maybe if the pick is conditional and there's a hell of a chance on an extension.

You wouldn't give up Dube and a 1st for Stone? Really?

He's at best the 4th best C in the entire system, and that's if he hits. He won't be better than Backlund in the next five years, and he likely isn't as good as Jankowksi in five years either.


I like Dube, but you trade him and the 1st for Mark Stone if that is a deal Ottawa is open to it.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

If BT trades Valamaki then he is not the man I think he is!

Guy is not to be moved

He won't - don't worry.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

We're not talking about 35 year old Giordano. We're talking about 38 year old Giordano. And we're not giving him away for free. I mean, when you're bringing up one of the best defenders of all-time to make a point, then it's probably not a realistic one.

I'm bringing up the only defenders who happen to have accomplished when Giordano likely will this year. If they're one of the best defenders of all time, maybe that says more about Giordano than you think it does.

Here's the simple argument. Would you rather have 38 year old Giordano, who likely makes double, or the 25 year old Andersson? I'm thinking it won't be much of a conversation when it gets to 2021.

I take Giordano. Bruins lost 25yo Colin Miller instead of Chara in the last expansion, and Miller was far better at 23 than Andersson has been at 22, so I suspect 25 Year old Miller is better than 25 year old Andersson too.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Stone scores at the same rate as Monahan... so people need to consider these deals in the light of whether Calgary would trade Monahan for similar players.

its not a fair comparison due to the contract status, but presumably, you'd get a chance to discuss an extension with Stone prior to accepting the trade.

as for Gio, some hard decisions will have to be made before the expansion draft... that's the reality of things when you are a good team; you're going to lose someone, just a question of who and are you looking at it from a 10 year perspective or a 2 year perspective...

[pokerNhockey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Because he's Gio, and he could possibly make some trades that improve the team by getting draft protected assets. I kinda doubt that anyone will be "begging" Seattle to take Gio. If they leave him unprotected it will be reluctantly. It wouldn't be unprecedented. The Bruins protected Chara who was older.

The Bruins protected Chara, Krug & Miller on D. Their exposed list was Linus Arnesson, Chris Casto, Tommy Cross, Alex Grant, John-Michael Liles, McQuaid, Colin Miller and Joe Morrow.


The Flames on the other hand would be chosing to exposing the third best of Hanafin, Valamaki, Anderson, or Kyllington who should all be better then they are today based on normal age curves, while Gio is already at an age you should expect him to start dropping off massively.

I suspect Chara being protected was somewhat influenced by the alternatives. I also wouldn't expect Seattle to take Ryan (35yr old free agent) over our other options because Vegas took a 35 year old free agent from us last time.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by pokerNhockey

I suspect Chara being protected was somewhat influenced by the alternatives.

He was NMC and had to be protected.
-------
Anyways, yes, Giordano could play until he is 40, could even beat Howe for oldest NHL player.

But there's literally thousands of examples of defenders who don't even make it to 38. And we aren't talking bad, fringe players. Neidermayer, Pronger, Leetch, there's a lot of Norris winners who hung them up. Giordano would be an exception, a huge one, not the rule, if he was worth protecting at 38.

We'll have this answered in a couple years, but I'm playing the odds.

[TheScorpion]

Personally I would have no problem with trading Dube in a deal for Stone, who is as good a right-winger in all respects as you can find in the NHL. Dube will be lucky to become half the player that Stone is now.

If I'm Mr. Treliving, I'm trying to go down one of two paths with my deadline adds.

Path 1:

Mark Stone
Carl Gunnarsson
Keith Kinkaid

Path 2:

Mats Zuccarello
Patrick Maroon/Carl Hagelin
Carl Gunnarsson
Keith Kinkaid

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

He was NMC and had to be protected.
-------
Anyways, yes, Giordano could play until he is 40, could even beat Howe for oldest NHL player.

But there's literally thousands of examples of defenders who don't even make it to 38. And we aren't talking bad, fringe players. Neidermayer, Pronger, Leetch, there's a lot of Norris winners who hung them up. Giordano would be an exception, a huge one, not the rule, if he was worth protecting at 38.

We'll have this answered in a couple years, but I'm playing the odds.

Gio is already the exception to the rule, so we should proceed as though he's one of the best defensemen in the game until he shows he isn't.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by pokerNhockey

The Flames on the other hand would be chosing to exposing the third best of Hanafin, Valamaki, Anderson, or Kyllington

Good teams lose good players to expansion.

Anaheim lost Shea Theodore, who is both a good player and a player I have confidently said is not better than Oliver Kylington and been ridiculed for that opinion.

Nashville after the SCF lost Neal, who at the time was still considered a top 6F.

If we are in a situation fortunate enough where Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington, AND Hanifin are players we simply can't win without, we will be such a good team that losing a good player won't matter. Far more likely is that some of these cracks we see in these guys - Hanifin's poor reads, Andersson's inability to reacquire the puck in the Dzone, Valimaki's less than stellar point production, Kylington's less than stellar netfront play, are here to stay. We will be lucky if one of these four young guys is a bonafide top pairing guy in 2021 and beyond. Right now our roster has two, arguably even three defensemen who legitimately can handle top competition and suffocate the opponent when they are on the ice - Giordano, Hamonic, Brodie and we are spoiled by that (though the Hamonic acquisition came at a huge expense and I still disagree with it overall due to the long term implications). But look at the league, there are far more guys like Ben Hutton and Adam Larsson and Dion Phaneuf and Karl Alzner and Jonas Brodin and Olli Maata - guys who were prococious talents in their early twenties, who were still decent top 4 guys, yet got passed by previously no name guys, when it came to actually playing a big role on good teams and their flaws exposed.

I think we have some great young defensemen but being a "must protect defenseman" is no sure thing. Even Hanifin has not looked like a "must protect" defenseman even with his impressive offensive output.

There are also ways to game an expansion draft. Trade a proven piece like Hanifin for an unproven, but high-end expansion exempt player, maybe even a Cale Makar or Evan Bouchard. Trade our 2022 1st for Seattle to take Neal's contract off our hands. Etc.

Exposing your captain (who you rave about for his off ice stuff) just doesn't make sense, even if he is old and expensive.