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Old 06-29-2013, 10:23 AM   #861
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Yes, really.

Jones has size but does not use it. Over his career, he has average somewhere around 1.25 hits per game.

To put that in perspective, over his past 3 seasons, Wideman has averaged 1.20 per game. His PIM totals are very low and also do not reflect a willingness to use his body.

He has a couple decent seasons under his belt and that's it. His career best is 45 points, which doesn't exactly scream that we should be looking for more.

Fans expecting him to come in and work hard every night and forecheck are, I suspect, going to be disappointed, whether he makes 4 million or league minimum.

Avs fans may be undervaluing him based on the fact that they traded him, but Flames fans are doing the same with Tanguay.

Get ready to get blasted!! According to a lot of Folks in this board the 2 PIM that Lindholm took playing the the SEL shows he is an aggressive big hitter that plays the hard areas who just is so good that he doesn't take penalties.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:27 AM   #862
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So I post the evidence and you say no because you just feel like it? Did you sit on the Jury for the O.J Simpson case as well? David Jones muscles players off the puck, he drives the net hard, and while he does not hit everything in sight he does throw big hits.
I've watched enough Av's games over the years and i can safely say that those "big hits" are far and few between.

He needs to get his speed back, it is a huge part of his game. Not sure if he can? Because of injuries he does not go to the net like in the past. He is still a hard guy to move when he is infront of the net. Thats something the flames have not had for a long time. I do hope they put him on the PP for screening goalies and tap ins.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:28 AM   #863
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Wow, 43 pages on doofuses for doofuses trade!
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:34 AM   #864
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So I post the evidence and you say no because you just feel like it? Did you sit on the Jury for the O.J Simpson case as well? David Jones muscles players off the puck, he drives the net hard, and while he does not hit everything in sight he does throw big hits.
No, I said no because his career doesn't show him as a guy that uses his body.

Maybe he hits big but if he doesn't do it often then he's not using his tools effectively.

I can post youtube videos of Tanguay scoring, but according to this thread that means nothing because he quit and mailed it in. If you're expecting Jones to be better because you think your youtube videos show he cares more, then I think you'll be disappointed.

No need to get personal about it.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:40 AM   #865
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http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/video...40&cmpid=embed

Jones Taking the Smurf Line (Baert, Cervenka, Hudler) to school
http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/video...ed-share-video

If you watch his NHL highlights, he scores most of his goals all around the goal mouth on one-shot goals. I like that.
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:45 AM   #866
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http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/video...40&cmpid=embed

Jones Taking the Smurf Line (Baert, Cervenka, Hudler) to school
http://video.avalanche.nhl.com/video...ed-share-video

If you watch his NHL highlights, he scores most of his goals all around the goal mouth on one-shot goals. I like that.
I can't watch it from my phone atm, but is that how all 3 of his goals were scored last season?
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:58 AM   #867
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I can't watch it from my phone atm, but is that how all 3 of his goals were scored last season?
Goal 1: low slot single shot snipe inside the post, PPG, Game Winner
Goal 2: High Slot single snipe inside the post (OT game winner)
Goal 3: In the bluepaint, jamming in a rebound, outmuscling Baertschi, Butler and Wideman (Flames blow 3-0, 4-2 leads, lose 5-4 in regulation)
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Old 06-29-2013, 11:01 AM   #868
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I think best case on Jones is Moss type points output.

I guess that's OK. But I don't think this deal made flames better. Hopefully feaster has more in store.
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Old 06-29-2013, 12:26 PM   #869
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I am going to quickly share my thoughts on the deal and SOB v. Sarich and Jones v. Tanguay.


O'Brien vs Sarich

I think SOB for Sarich is a win, we get younger, more mobile and meaner. I love Sarich and wish he had retired a Flame, but this is definitely a moderate upgrade.


Jones vs Tanguay

Tanguay is a better offensive player, this much is clear but I am tired of hearing he is the "best" player in the deal, there is more to building a team and building a winner than mere point production. While Tanguay is better offensively I am not so sure he is better than Jones in any other area of the game. Jones is better defensively, a better penalty killer, has a better attitude, is bigger, stronger and more physical. I think it's actually was between the 2 players when you look beyond offensive numbers.



Ask yourself this. Who would you rather have in their prime? Stephane Yelle or Kristian Huselius. For me there is little doubt and I would choose Sandbox hands down.
sorry, what?

not sure why you have brought Juice and Yelle into a comparison of Tanguay and Jones?

Yelle was an integral part of 2 stanley cups for the avs.... not sure how Jones is even in the conversation? not comparable whatsoever, other than the fact they both play hockey...
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Old 06-29-2013, 03:21 PM   #870
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You listen to the Edmonton media too much.

Edmonton wanted Jones when he was set to become a FA a couple seasons ago. Then the Flames get him and he's suddenly garbage. Typical Edmonton media BS.
No David Jones is garbage because he doesn't play physical despite his physical tools and is a complete product of Paul Stastny. To put it into perspective, David Jones had 9 pts, Alex Tanguay, signed to a cheaper deal, had 11 goals for a supposed playmaking forward. It was also speculated that both he and Shane O'Brien were destined to be moved after Giguere's comments on some players thinking ahead of the Las Vegas trip during the season. I think this is a very poor decision by Jay Feaster. Buying out Tanguay's contract would be much better than taking on an even worse contract from David Jones.
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Old 06-29-2013, 04:33 PM   #871
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I don't care what the fans says, I care what my eyeballs says.

Jones is sometimes unnoticeable because he's just being solid. Tanguay is often unnoticeable because he's floating around disengaged from the play. No question about it, Jones is not as 'skilled' as Tanguay, one of the most 'skilled' players in the league. Skill ain't worth much without effort, though; without mental toughness.

Tanguay is the epitome of the phrase, "points aren't everything." If Jones plays similar minutes to what Tanguay did last year and is simply not a big bag of suck, the trade is worth it, regardless of any point spread between the two.

Tanguay sucked long and he sucked hard last season. I was embarrassed for him. Getting a decent effort out of the guys in our top 6 will be such a shock to the system when we actually see it this year. Jones, bringing a decent effort, is worth it just not to watch a guy skate around in little loops, turning the puck over and generally looking like hot garbage.
Tangs was mailing it in for a good portion of last year-listless play, and a turnover machine. as a team, we may have lost a bit of offense but in the long run, we have become harder to play against and that is the direction we need to be heading.
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:45 PM   #872
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:47 PM   #873
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:52 PM   #874
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Kinda funny how in a week we added 4 guys with local ties:
  • Corban Knight (High River)
  • David Jones (wife is Calgarian)
  • Morgan Klimchuk (just graduated from Scarlett)
  • TJ Galiardi (graduated from St. Mary's in 2006)
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Old 07-03-2013, 01:55 PM   #875
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"The front of our net is going to be a tough place to play." - @ShaneOBrien55 http://pic.twitter.com/1SocElE41w
Hopefully not just for Ramo and MacDonald.
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #876
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so is that Knight, O'Brien, Galiardi and Jones (in that order)?

O'Brien is a big dude - Feaster looks like he's 5'8" standing beside him
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:07 PM   #877
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O'Brien is a big dude - Feaster looks like he's 5'8" standing beside him
Matter of curiosity, how tall is Feaster?
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Old 07-03-2013, 02:09 PM   #878
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so is that Knight, O'Brien, Galiardi and Jones (in that order)?
yup
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:31 PM   #879
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SOB has somehow been played significantly more than Sarich over the last 6 years.
No need to read beyond your first sentence, and all the stats you threw up. Why?

Where would Sarich slot in with: Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Regehr, Giordano?

How about Bouwmeester, Regehr, Giordano?

How about Bouwmeester, Giordano, Wideman, Brodie?

Or whatever combinations the Flames have had in their top 4 in whatever years you are trying to prove with your stats.

Go back and compare the Flames D lineups over the last few years with those from Colorado, and look at something called "Depth Charts". Stats without context is 100% meaningless. This is a prime example of how people use stats to try and prove a point, no matter how terrible their point is.
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Old 07-04-2013, 12:51 AM   #880
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No need to read beyond your first sentence, and all the stats you threw up. Why?

Where would Sarich slot in with: Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Regehr, Giordano?

How about Bouwmeester, Regehr, Giordano?

How about Bouwmeester, Giordano, Wideman, Brodie?

Or whatever combinations the Flames have had in their top 4 in whatever years you are trying to prove with your stats.

Go back and compare the Flames D lineups over the last few years with those from Colorado, and look at something called "Depth Charts". Stats without context is 100% meaningless. This is a prime example of how people use stats to try and prove a point, no matter how terrible their point is.

The Flames have been so good that Sarich couldn't earn enough ice time..???? Butler played 21 minutes a game and the coaches kept Sarich at 16.

Butler and Hannan 20 minutes and Brodie as a rookie were just too dominate for Sarich to get more than 16.

The Flames Defense was a disaster in the last full season.... Kipper had great last stand and with any reasonable Defense in front oif him would have carried the Flames into the playofs.

The Flames had maybe the worst in the league with Bouw-Butler, Gio-Hannan Brodie-Sarich and Sarich was #6 in ice time....... only because journeyman Smith was hurt.

Meanwhile on Colorado 2 pts behind Calgary in the standings and letting in 220 goals to Calgary's 226.. has SOB in at 19 minutes/game.. Behind Johnson, Hedja and Quincey.

Sarich may have been squeezed for ice time before Phanuef got traded but after that it was because he wasn't good enough to play in any NHL teams top 4.
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